Waiting for the storm

[Bob Ross]

Re: Waiting for the storm

Bob, have you ever used Lightroom(2)?
My own feeling is that with a few adjustments of the sliders in LR, a better result can be achieved, and more easily. Its all subjective but that's my opinion

Hi Stephen,
No, I haven't used Lightroom. I use Picture Window Pro, which is less automated. I have shared and discussed the gradient saturation technique with a friend who uses PS/CS and the current opinion runs that you can get some subtle, but noticeable improvement in IQ, that can't be obtained by using the global controls. Have you ever used tone mapping techniques? This is a take-off for color of that approach. It definitely gets into the opinion zone, because not everyone from the old film school liked transparencies or even ever printed from slides. I did, so I am trying to correct a shortcoming in digital images that I see, but others don't or wont. I am still in the learning stage with this and saw Ian's image as a good candidate, with which to play. The hazard in sharing this is that it might not translate to this site well (and it didn't) and since everyone has a different monitor, the subtlties would be lost or missed. It doesn't really matter, just something to think about or not.
Bob

[Stephen]

Re: Waiting for the storm

Hi Stephen,
No, I haven't used Lightroom. I use Picture Window Pro, which is less automated. I have shared and discussed the gradient saturation technique with a friend who uses PS/CS and the current opinion runs that you can get some subtle, but noticeable improvement in IQ, that can't be obtained by using the global controls. Have you ever used tone mapping techniques? This is a take-off for color of that approach. It definitely gets into the opinion zone, because not everyone from the old film school liked transparencies or even ever printed from slides. I did, so I am trying to correct a shortcoming in digital images that I see, but others don't or wont. I am still in the learning stage with this and saw Ian's image as a good candidate, with which to play. The hazard in sharing this is that it might not translate to this site well (and it didn't) and since everyone has a different monitor, the subtlties would be lost or missed. It doesn't really matter, just something to think about or not.
Bob

I think it was clear enough from your attachment that your adjustments had made a subtle yet significant improvement to the image. Things may have looked slightly different even better on your monitor, these things can be subjective as we know. However it seems to me that your technique is essentially one of making selective adjustments using masking.

Lightroom and ACR in the latest Photoshop can do this sort of thing without using traditional masking methods. The new adjustment brushes are in a way using masking, but not how you would normally understand it, and its become effectively painting an area with the adjustment you want with a feathered brush. However over and above this its possible to adjust ranges of tone, even on a jpeg, so that dark or light areas are treated separately and even areas of low or high contrast. The Clarity slider for example adjusts midtone contrast, and this alone makes a significant change to Ians picture.

I have used Tonemapping, and went through a phase of using it regularly. I use the Photomatix plugin, which I often used instead of the Shadow Highlight tool in PS. It worked a treat if used carefully. However used rather more heavily it can produce some rather surreal results and this seems to have become fashionable amongst the users of HDR techniques. Tonemapping seems to even out dark and light areas in a picture, putting tone in where there was little and taking it out where there was a lot. Its not for those who like the subtleties of light and shadow as I'm sure will understand. To be honest I've not used the technique for a long time now, mainly because Lightroom seems to do most of the tone and colour adjustments I need these days

[Bob Ross]

Re: Waiting for the storm

Hi Stephen,
PWP is a mask users tool. It has the easiest mask making process that I have found and I think in masks... It also has the brushes, but they probably don't go as far as the ones that you use.
I was thinking about our discussion and thought, here it is about eight years since I edited my first digital image and I am just now working on an annoyance that didn't seem to go away. I got a good dose of the film vrs digital from the Leica forums when the M8 came out. A lot of those folks never used digital and only used Leica M and they were not happy for various well described reasons. I knew how to deal with (or ignore) most of the issues, but it must have woke up my concern for the color depth gradient annoyance. I wonder what other IQ nuances I haven't noticed yet
Bob