Is perfection a valid goal?

[Bearface]

Re: Is perfection a valid goal?

But this approach would not work in all areas of photography and I'm sure there are areas where 'perfection' is more essential.

You're right; there's little scope for true seat-of-the-pants spontaneity in most commercial work for example, or indeed in any conditions where one has control over the lighting, the environment and of course the amount of time needed to make the grade.

However - and I'm speaking for myself here - perfection as a concept isn't one of my personal goals when working under the conditions I've referred to above; to me it's more about realising my visions. I don't feel the need to follow convention when it comes to my lighting or compositions (if I did, I'd be swimming with the tide alongside just about everyone else who works in my field), so by definition my work will never be "perfect". Personally, I celebrate that fact...

But Perfection is a bit like Common Sense, does it really exist?

I'd say not, but then I have no first-hand knowledge of either

[Bearface]

Re: Is perfection a valid goal?

Im amazed that profesional photographers have entered a debate about Tom's picture!
Surely you guys now that its not about the technical perfection of an image, if you are there and you see the frame in your eyes, then you take it, its not gunna hang around!
Ash.

Umm..........think you may just've missed my point there, Ash. Just slightly...

[Bearface]

Re: Is perfection a valid goal?

Well ... that kinda sums up the essence of good documentary and photojournalism, doesn't it? Not always time and opportunity to get a level horizon, vertical verticals and think too much about the rule of thirds but for goodness' sake get the picture, grab the decisive moment.

I agree, although to be honest my aim in starting this thread was not to simply try and define good documentary photography; I kinda figured most people would already have a good grasp of that concept already

As for striving for perfection ........ I certainly agree it's a very valid goal. However, I also feel we should also aim to enjoy the striving, enjoy self assessment, take pride in our efforts even though we sometimes give ourselves 6/10 when we'd been hoping for a 10/10. At least it means yer glass is more than half full, eh.

Pol

I just don't know that perfection can be defined in this context (or any other for that matter), because one person's idea of a flaw often constitutes perfection to another. I mean, there are plenty of technically brilliant shots around today, but for me they often lack soul and depth which forces me to conclude that they're as far from "perfect" as it's possible to be. However others will argue that by virtue of it's perfectly-honed component parts, such an image must surely represent perfection.

As I've said in another part of this thread, for me the thrill is realising my personal visions, rather than trying to achieve "perfection", which probably doesn't even exist in any case. When I prep an image and view it on my screen, it either meets my original expectations or it doesn't........there are no marks out of ten and no in-depth analysis; it's either what I wanted or it's fallen flat on it's ar*e. And taking things further............I always like to hear other people's views on my shots, but whether the concensus is positive or negeative, my own views don't change - it either met my original vision, or it didn't

[Pol]

Re: Is perfection a valid goal?

........ it's either what I wanted or it's fallen flat on it's ar*e. And taking things further............I always like to hear other people's views on my shots, but whether the concensus is positive or negeative, my own views don't change - it either met my original vision, or it didn't

LOL ...... this is beginning to sound like one of the 'animated' conversations that sometimes happens between David and me. It can often kick off whilst we're belting around the lanes in the camper en route to or from some photo safari that may or may not have gone as originally intended.

We get home, go off to out separate workstation, d/l our respective pics - silence reigns for about 5-10 minutes then it erupts ....... usually started by me when I call him through to discuss one of my shots.

That progresses to his usual constructive, helpful opinions but he almost always finishes with "you're the photographer anyway and I'm just a recorder, so I dunno why you're asking me" .... and me telling him not to be so pathetic and self deprecating and going to the other room to look through his shots ........ and often coming back feeling as sick as a parrot 'cos he got what I'd wanted.

That usually leads to 2 miserable and disappointed faces, me wanting summick to eat, him going to cook something and declaring he's gonna bin all or most of his shots if he hasn't already done so.

Don't ask what the discussions are all about because I could only reply by telling you they're about anything and everything. If I analyse it honestly I think we're probably in competition - each trying to get something the other didn't go for (or say they didn't want). Then we have a sneak look at what the other is doing, or has done and ponder over it and gradually try to build the ideas into our 'repetoire'.

I have photos plastered all over the downstairs walls, he has them plastered all over the upstairs. I suppose visitors just kinda accept that's the way we are.... and we probably ain't gonna change.


Pol

[Bearface]

Re: Is perfection a valid goal?

LOL ...... this is beginning to sound like one of the 'animated' conversations that sometimes happens between David and me. It can often kick off whilst we're belting around the lanes in the camper en route to or from some photo safari that may or may not have gone as originally intended.

We get home, go off to out separate workstation, d/l our respective pics - silence reigns for about 5-10 minutes then it erupts ....... usually started by me when I call him through to discuss one of my shots.

That progresses to his usual constructive, helpful opinions but he almost always finishes with "you're the photographer anyway and I'm just a recorder, so I dunno why you're asking me" .... and me telling him not to be so pathetic and self deprecating and going to the other room to look through his shots ........ and often coming back feeling as sick as a parrot 'cos he got what I'd wanted.

That usually leads to 2 miserable and disappointed faces, me wanting summick to eat, him going to cook something and declaring he's gonna bin all or most of his shots if he hasn't already done so.

Don't ask what the discussions are all about because I could only reply by telling you they're about anything and everything. If I analyse it honestly I think we're probably in competition - each trying to get something the other didn't go for (or say they didn't want). Then we have a sneak look at what the other is doing, or has done and ponder over it and gradually try to build the ideas into our 'repetoire'.

I have photos plastered all over the downstairs walls, he has them plastered all over the upstairs. I suppose visitors just kinda accept that's the way we are.... and we probably ain't gonna change.


Pol

What a wonderful insight.........the picture you've painted doesn't sound too different to how things are chez nous, although we don't have any of our pictures up at home; not a single one.

Anyway thanks - I quite enjoyed reading that

[Pol]

Re: Is perfection a valid goal?

What a wonderful insight.........the picture you've painted doesn't sound too different to how things are chez nous, although we don't have any of our pictures up at home; not a single one.

Anyway thanks - I quite enjoyed reading that

I almost asked if it was the same at your place but decided I'd better not risk it.

None of the pictures on the walls are proper/framed pics. They're all just home prints of shots we decided we decided we liked enough to display for a while. The funny thing is - he sometimes sticks up some of my prints but I never, ever stick up any of his.

I also hate it when he waves a cr@ppy 10 x 8 print in my face instead of letting me see the original file on the PC first. That usually leads to a harsh exchange - I hate his prints, hate his crumby uncalibrated screen and ancient PC and heaven help him if he dare venture near mine!

Next on the agenda is a clear-out as I want space for some arty-clarty ideas I have in mind.

Pol

[Bearface]

Re: Is perfection a valid goal?



The only other thing I should probably mention is that our desks are alongside one another, so we work literally five feet apart. My screen is shielded by my computer tower so it serves as a divider, but you wouldn't believe the insults we've traded in that confined little area...

A clear out is always a good thing. So long as it has nothing whatsover to do with me...

[Tinka]

[Pol]

Re: Is perfection a valid goal?

.............These images are captured and not created .........

.........I want real ones not your idea of how they should be, well who could argue with that.

I certainly wouldn't argue with that - though it needn't necessarily be pictures of family and friends. Sometimes the pictures taken by family (or friends) can remind family and friends of important aspects of the 'soul' the photographer himself after he's no longer with them.

See here for the final exposures of Bill Biggart, an American PJ who died doing his job whilst covering events on 9/11.

Pol

[Tinka]

Re: Is perfection a valid goal?

Sometimes the pictures taken by family (or friends) can remind family and friends of important aspects of the 'soul' the photographer himself after he's no longer with them.

See here for the final exposures of Bill Biggart, an American PJ who died doing his job whilst covering events on 9/11.

Pol

Thanks for the link Pol, a very moving and hard hitting subject,