Bombastic. Belligerent. Bernie...

[Bearface]

Does Bernie have any redeeming qualities? I mean, other than his wealth and status, is there anything about him to like?

On Sunday when he told Martin Brundle that he thought Alonso deserved to take the title ( ), I was completely stunned, but then when he later said that he'd thought all along that Raikonnen had deserved to win......well I found it all a bit farcical.

Now he's apportioning blame for Lewis's failure to win the title on Sunday, and he's got Ron Dennis squarely in his sights! Can somebody not give the little weasel something useful to do?

He could count his money, admire his own reflection in the mirror, or perhaps even think up some new ways to alienate / upset / bankrupt track-owners whose livelihoods (and those of their employees, as well as surrounding communities and their economies) depend on Formula One...

Purely my own opinion of course, but surely him and Max Moseley are two of the least pleasant characters ever to set foot on this planet..?

[coupekid]

Re: Bombastic. Belligerent. Bernie...

Does Bernie have any redeeming qualities? I mean, other than his wealth and status, is there anything about him to like?

On Sunday when he told Martin Brundle that he thought Alonso deserved to take the title ( ), I was completely stunned, but then when he later said that he'd thought all along that Raikonnen had deserved to win......well I found it all a bit farcical.

With you on that Tim, I couldnt believe what I was hearing!
If I remember rightly, Brundle was a little lost for words, and almost had to verbally steer him to mention Hamilton.

[jojo]

Re: Bombastic. Belligerent. Bernie...

admire his own reflection in the mirror

I think not

jo

[JSR]

Re: Bombastic. Belligerent. Bernie...

On Sunday when he told Martin Brundle that he thought Alonso deserved to take the title ( ), I was completely stunned, but then when he later said that he'd thought all along that Raikonnen had deserved to win......well I found it all a bit farcical.

I didn't hear the Raikonnen bit, but I did hear him when he said he backed Alonso.

It made me wonder if he secretly backed Alonso all along but only said he was behind Hamilton so that he'd get his face in the British press more favourably all season. After all, when he said he was behind Alonso, Brundle had to almost force him into saying something complimentary about Hamilton. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, even Bernie, and it shouldn't be up to the supposedly impartial "reporters" to almost bully him into saying what the punters back home want to hear.

When Bernie said he was behind Alonso, Brundle should just have coolly said "Thank-you for your opinion" and moved onto someone else. If he doesn't want the answer to the question, he shouldn't have posed the question in the first place. Or, is the only point of the questions an exercise in feeding the Hamilton Hype Machine?

Bernie may not have expressed the same opinion that the majority of British fans had on Sunday, but it is his right to express whatever opinion he has when someone asks him for it without having to have the questioner bully him into lying just to please a certain element of fandom.

It makes me wonder just how many other people on the grid, when asked to express an opinion, favour Hamilton solely because that's what they think the British press want to hear rather than telling the truth. Far better to be part of the Hamilton Hype Machine than to be against it and have the entire British press and British F1 fans hurl stones at you. At least Bernie could say whatever he wanted and not cared what people think of him. I don't pay much interest in what Bernie has to say anyway, but no one should be forced to say what they don't want to say.

In short - if you don't want the answer, Brundle, then don't ask the question! There are a lot of "safer" targets on the grid - such as Lewis' father and Ron Dennis.

[Ian]

Re: Bombastic. Belligerent. Bernie...

Bernie is Bernie - nothing new there. But to play the devil's advocate bit, of Bernie was interviewed after the race, his stated view that Raikkonen deserved the title may have been based on what he saw if the race, so he changed his mind - quite legitimately.

But let's take the 'apportioning blame' thing in to perspective. After what someone else pointed out the other day concerning Planet F1 journalism, I'm certainly not going believe anything they say with out confirmation from a more august journal, and let's face it, the Daily Mirror is not that journal!

Ian

[JSR]

Re: Bombastic. Belligerent. Bernie...

But let's take the 'apportioning blame' thing in to perspective. After what someone else pointed out the other day concerning Planet F1 journalism, I'm certainly not going believe anything they say with out confirmation from a more august journal, and let's face it, the Daily Mirror is not that journal!

That would have been me pointing out the difference in reporting between planet-f1 and itv.com.

I don't always agree with Ron Dennis' decisions but I don't believe the decision to three-stop was the wrong one. It makes it easy to blame him for Lewis not winning the WDC, but in the circumstances I think it was the right decision. Get the soft tyres out of the way as quickly as possible, plan for a stronger stint at the end, and give Lewis the opportunity to batter his tyres to death in order to catch up.

What's the alternative? Leave him with two-stops and nursing tyres all race? How would that have helped? And if they'd two-stopped and Lewis ended up wearing his tyres to the canvas again, who would they have blamed this time? No, I think it was the right call but that there was just too much ground to make up.

[lumix]

Re: Bombastic. Belligerent. Bernie...

That would have been me pointing out the difference in reporting between planet-f1 and itv.com.

I don't always agree with Ron Dennis' decisions but I don't believe the decision to three-stop was the wrong one. It makes it easy to blame him for Lewis not winning the WDC, but in the circumstances I think it was the right decision. Get the soft tyres out of the way as quickly as possible, plan for a stronger stint at the end, and give Lewis the opportunity to batter his tyres to death in order to catch up.

What's the alternative? Leave him with two-stops and nursing tyres all race? How would that have helped? And if they'd two-stopped and Lewis ended up wearing his tyres to the canvas again, who would they have blamed this time? No, I think it was the right call but that there was just too much ground to make up.

Totally agree and in fact just after the race Ron stated that three stops had gained them 10 secs on the track. He should know, and I believe he was right.

[Bearface]

Re: Bombastic. Belligerent. Bernie...

Bernie may not have expressed the same opinion that the majority of British fans had on Sunday, but it is his right to express whatever opinion he has when someone asks him for it without having to have the questioner bully him into lying just to please a certain element of fandom.

I was personally surprised at Bernie's comments because Alonso is possibly the person who least deserved to take the title in 2007, at least where the main contenders where concerned.........and his unsporting behaviour and tantrums, combined with his lack of sparkle on the track certainly didn't help his case.

On the issue of patriotism and saying the right thing, I couldn't care less what Bernie thinks or says, although perhaps it wouldn't hurt to be mindful of popular opinion, given how he earns his money, and where most of it comes from...

[JSR]

Re: Bombastic. Belligerent. Bernie...

Totally agree and in fact just after the race Ron stated that three stops had gained them 10 secs on the track. He should know, and I believe he was right.

You can pretty much guarantee that if Lewis had won, everyone would be congratulating Dennis on his fast thinking, forward-planning, quick strategy change, and all of that. Just because it wasn't enough, people like Bernie have a pop at him.

[Bearface]

Re: Bombastic. Belligerent. Bernie...

Bernie is Bernie - nothing new there. But to play the devil's advocate bit, of Bernie was interviewed after the race, his stated view that Raikkonen deserved the title may have been based on what he saw if the race, so he changed his mind - quite legitimately.

But let's take the 'apportioning blame' thing in to perspective. After what someone else pointed out the other day concerning Planet F1 journalism, I'm certainly not going believe anything they say with out confirmation from a more august journal, and let's face it, the Daily Mirror is not that journal!

Ian

Bernie is just Bernie - that's kinda what I'm saying. However his manner and behaviour often beggar belief and occasionally even warrant a mention in the forums. His undiplomatic comments about Alonso (he's the F1 supremo and yet he was happy to potentially alienate or offend British F1 fans who he knew would be supporting Hamilton) were one thing, but to start out by claiming that Alonso (of all people) deserved the title, only to end by jumping ship to Raikonnen (simply because he won the race), shows that if nothing else, he's a flimsy, fickle character. Not the best traits for someone in his position, you'd have thought...

I've got the "apportioning blame" thing in perspective, unless of course you have anything other than speculation on your side. If Planet F1 have been shown categorically to have lied outright or to have misled it's readership, then of course that provides some basis for questioning this report and it's content. However if the only basis for doubt is an unrelated rival article which read differently to the P/F1 version, then I'm not sure any real conclusions can be reached. In many cases Planet F1 have reported news which ITV-F1 haven't and generally their claims have turned out to be true, so I'm happy to keep an open mind.

[JSR]

Re: Bombastic. Belligerent. Bernie...

I was personally surprised at Bernie's comments because Alonso is possibly the person who least deserved to take the title in 2007, at least where the main contenders where concerned.........and his unsporting behaviour and tantrums, combined with his lack of sparkle on the track certainly didn't help his case.

I look at it from a different angle. Most of what we hear about Alonso is in relation to how it affects/affected Lewis. In short, he's always portrayed in a bad light by the British media. Even on the grid walks prior to the race, the likes of Brundle ignore him and move on without even trying to get an interview. Heaven forbid we might hear something from the horse's mouth for a change.

There's a small voice in the back of my head saying that we don't know the whole story about Alonso and that some of the vitriole that's hurled in his direction is undeserved. I'm not "anti-Alonso" nor am I "pro-Alonso" and I do think he could have handled himself better this season, but if he had won the WDC I wouldn't have been clamouring for a recount - I'd be saying "well done, Alonso" in much the same way that I'm happy that Raikonnen won.

In my view, as an F1 driver with undoubted racing talent, he would have deserved the title just as much as any of the other contenders. That's just my opinion, and I certainly wouldn't wish to force it on anyone else.

[Bearface]

Re: Bombastic. Belligerent. Bernie...

I look at it from a different angle. Most of what we hear about Alonso is in relation to how it affects/affected Lewis. In short, he's always portrayed in a bad light by the British media. Even on the grid walks prior to the race, the likes of Brundle ignore him and move on without even trying to get an interview. Heaven forbid we might hear something from the horse's mouth for a change.

There's a small voice in the back of my head saying that we don't know the whole story about Alonso and that some of the vitriole that's hurled in his direction is undeserved. I'm not "anti-Alonso" nor am I "pro-Alonso" and I do think he could have handled himself better this season, but if he had won the WDC I wouldn't have been clamouring for a recount - I'd be saying "well done, Alonso" in much the same way that I'm happy that Raikonnen won.

In my view, as an F1 driver with undoubted racing talent, he would have deserved the title just as much as any of the other contenders. That's just my opinion, and I certainly wouldn't wish to force it on anyone else.

Beware of voices in the back of your head. Especially if you feel any compulsion to obey their commands...

I never particularly liked Alonso and nor did I consider him to be in the same league as Raikonnen (as the archived threads on the subject will no doubt confirm), but I only really started to dislike him this season and my reasons for this have mostly been based on his childish on-track transgressions and the interviews in which he's implied that the team and Ron Dennis have treated him unfairly. Also the threats made to Ron regarding Stepneygate and his (Alonso's) involvement in it, which were the catalyst for McLaren being removed from the constructors championship in addition to the fines they incurred.................anyway, it's very hard to see the guy in a positive light and it's hardly as though any of the above incidents are based on speculation - most of them either took place in front of the cameras or were confirmed by people such as Ron Dennis, who for all his faults is not known to be a dishonest person.

Nevertheless, you're perfectly entitled to your opinion, just as I'm entitled to mine

[JSR]

Re: Bombastic. Belligerent. Bernie...

Beware of voices in the back of your head. Especially when you start to obey their commands...

I never particularly liked Alonso and nor did I consider him to be in the same league as Raikonnen (as the archived threads on the subject will no doubt confirm), but I only really started to dislike him this season and my reasons for this have mostly been based on his childish on-track transgressions and the interviews in which he's implied that the team and Ron Dennis have treated him unfairly. Also the threats made to Ron regarding Stepneygate and his (Alonso's) involvement in it, which were the catalyst for McLaren being removed from the constructors championship in addition to the fines they incurred.................anyway, it's very hard to see the guy in a positive light and it's hardly as though any of the above incidents are based on speculation - most of them either took place in front of the cameras or were confirmed by people such as Ron Dennis, who for all his faults is not known to be a dishonest person.

If Alonso is racing next season, it'll be interesting to see if the same kind of in-house muck gets raked or not. If Alonso was truly as bad as he'd been painted, why wasn't he kicked out of the McLaren car months ago? Just musing...

Nevertheless, you're perfectly entitled to your opinion, just as I'm entitled to mine

Indeed, it'd be a boring world if we all thought the same. Regardless of my view of Alonso, I've said before that Raikonnen winning was the best result we could have expected from this debacle of a year. If either Alonso or Hamilton had won the WDC, there'd be such a fuss made from one camp or the other about "favouritism" or "sabotage" that we'd never hear the end of it.

The best thing McLaren could do now is to let Alonso go and concentrate their efforts fully behind Hamilton next year. Personally, I would like to see Alonso in another team (back to Renault, perhaps), so that rather than having a three-man challenge we would have a three-team challenge (possibly more than three, what with BMW's record this year). Then, may the best driver win regardless of in-house squabbling.

[Bearface]

Re: Bombastic. Belligerent. Bernie...

If Alonso is racing next season, it'll be interesting to see if the same kind of in-house muck gets raked or not. If Alonso was truly as bad as he'd been painted, why wasn't he kicked out of the McLaren car months ago? Just musing...

If Alonso gets what he wants, which at the very least is no.1 status in the team he's driving with, I see no reason why he'll be throwing his toys out of the pram at every opportunity. This season he didn't get that (although this would have been very clear in his contract...) and so consequently he and McLaren suffered terribly.

Given how the relationship deteriorated (and understandably so) between Alonso and the team, Ron and even Hamilton, I find it hard to understand why he wasn't unceremoniously dumped immediately after the Hungary debacle, but perhaps legal and/or contractual obstacles got in the way? In any case, I feel sure that it'll all come out in the wash at some point.

[JSR]

Re: Bombastic. Belligerent. Bernie...

Given how the relationship deteriorated (and understandably so) between Alonso and the team, Ron and even Hamilton, I find it hard to understand why he wasn't unceremoniously dumped immediately after the Hungary debacle, but perhaps legal and/or contractual obstacles got in the way?

This is one of the things that keeps that voice of mine nagging away. There are a million and one reports in the British media about the Hungary incident. Yes, Alonso was wrong. He shouldn't have done what he did. But only a very few reports acknowledge that the incident was precipitated by Hamilton disobeying his instructions - and most of those that do mention it only do so as a casual throwaway comment. Had Hamilton done as instructed/planned, the situation would never have occured and Alonso would not have stepped over the line. Hamilton was the one that caused the incident, yet it was Alonso who got penalised. No wonder things went from bad to worse.

Alonso is never going to get the appreciation he's looking for from McLaren. The only place he'll ever get that is Renault.