Do you understand the message? German Grand Prix

[devilgas]

Re: Do you understand the message? German Grand Prix

I actually swiched off before Alonso had parked his car, I didnt want to look at the farcical presentation to the "winner".

you missed the best bit then

the podium, falseness of ferrari and press interview was a sight to behold. at one point i thought FM was going to lamp FA with the champagne bottle

i felt so sorry for felippe. would've been nice to see him do a rubens and wait until the finish straight before letting the whiner through.

[Ian]

Re: Do you understand the message? German Grand Prix

McLaren's Martin Whitmarsh has declared that he would rather lose a championship than prevent his drivers from racing each other. That is so refreshing to hear.

The point is that Ferrari's championship year is already tarnished because of what they have done. If Alonso goes on to win the drivers' championship, in many people's eyes it will be hollow.

Ian

[devilgas]

Re: Do you understand the message? German Grand Prix

i was rooting for ferrari to beat SV into the first corner (purely because of the 'red bull nicks/clips your wings' stuff from silverstone & the turkey debacle). was happy that FM was leading and looking like he was going to win. now can't stand ferrari once again after another lame decision making a mockery of the race and the subsequent comments giving the impression they think they're bigger than the sport.

on the plus, my dislike of ferrari (purely down to the 'fairness' they grant their drivers) has been restored, so natural order has been restored

i hope the FIA do 'something' so that the fabricated result from this race has no impact on either championship. that would mean reversing the 1-2, however it wouldn't set an example against race fixing. for that, the only 'real' penalty would be a ban.

[Rodbender]

Re: Do you understand the message? German Grand Prix

i was rooting for ferrari to beat SV into the first corner (purely because of the 'red bull nicks/clips your wings' stuff from silverstone & the turkey debacle). was happy that FM was leading and looking like he was going to win. now can't stand ferrari once again after another lame decision making a mockery of the race and the subsequent comments giving the impression they think they're bigger than the sport.

on the plus, my dislike of ferrari (purely down to the 'fairness' they grant their drivers) has been restored, so natural order has been restored

i hope the FIA do 'something' so that the fabricated result from this race has no impact on either championship. that would mean reversing the 1-2, however it wouldn't set an example against race fixing. for that, the only 'real' penalty would be a ban.

I agree with most of what has already been said, but thinking carefully about penalties why should the drivers suffer. Revers the result and take away the team points. That way The drivers standing in the drivers championship would reflect how it should have been and Ferrari lose out on their ill-gotten points gain. Ban them from races and the drivers also lose out.
Well done FM for making it obvious that he had been ordered to let FA pass.

[devilgas]

Re: Do you understand the message? German Grand Prix

if the drivers don't suffer, then ferrari, should they win the WDC as a consequence will still get the benefit.

they say it was a team decision. they were already 1 & 2, so swapping the positions did not benefit the team as far as the constructors championship goes. however, their leading driver (FA) gets more points for 1st place, thus putting the team in a better position to win the WDC.

[JSR]

Re: Do you understand the message? German Grand Prix

I agree with most of what's said here.

My personal opinion is that they should be penalised in such a way that makes them decide *not* to commit the same offence in the future. The only penalty that would do that would be to strip both drivers, and the team, of their points.

I've been wrestling with my conscience over whether this is fair to Massa who, as we know, was effectively told to pull over. However, both the team and the driver are responsible. The team gave the order, Massa obeyed the order and it's Massa who went on to lie and cover up for the team - thus taking the responsibility upon himself. No one put a gun to his head to make him do it.

If the penalty was harsh enough then the order would not have been given and the whole thing wouldn't have happened. So far the penalty is not harsh enough for, as one of the other teams commented "$100,000? It's worth doing again, then."

Hopefully the WMSC will see sense and come down hard on Ferrari. Any cheating like this should see a minimum penalty of all points lost by those responsible (the team that gave the order and the drivers that were complicit in the cheating).

If the argument is "it's a team sport, not a driver sport" then there is another solution - have only *one* driver per team. If they can't play an equal hand, then maybe they should remove all of the second drivers from the field. Then they wouldn't have the quandary in the future.

For DC to say "there's always been team orders and the rule should be removed" is to say "it's okay to cheat" without looking at the root of the problem.

Red Bull show us how to race, McLaren show us how to play fair, and Ferrari show us how to get away with cheating.

If they don't deal with this cheating harshly, how soon before we can expect Ferrari to tell Massa to help Alonso by crashing into a wall?