The new Canon 40D

[Ian]

Re: The new Canon 40D

Here we go again! My Tom Tom SatNav has led me through some interesting narrow lanes in its time, but it has also no doubt saved me hours of frustration, not just here, but abroad. Just because you prefer maps doesn't mean a SatNav isn't a very useful tool for someone else like me.

Alfa's selespeed transmission is supposed to be terrible, and the Mini version isn't universally praised either. Try an Audi DSG gearbox and you'll be fighting the desire to own one. Possibly...

Sounds good - I'll certainly keep an open mind - see what I'm trying to get at?

Do you honestly think that by trying the Live View on a Canon DSLR that I'll suddenly see things differently?

I believe you will recognise a practical use if you try something that has one. Will you find Live View useful? Who knows until you try it? But dismissing it out of hand without trying it... not very logical is it?

I already know what a decent LCD preview screen looks like compared to a viewfinder, so why the emphasis on trying it out? I use my DSLRs as DSLRs because they're designed to be used as such to enable users to get the most out of their focusing and compositions; if I want to focus or compose with a flat, virtual image I'll use a compact, but not if my livelihood depends on it.

Let me try to close this argument once and for all. Do you believe others to be wrong to decide that Live View is useful as a complementary aid to a DSLR viewfinder, and do you deny that there are people out there that really do find it useful - including professionals? Two questions; yes or no?

No buts!

Ian

[Bearface]

Re: The new Canon 40D

One thing I didn't miss is that you don't want live-view. I think you have made that obvious.

Yes. Is that a problem for you too?

Your other comment about me not appreciating Fine Art makes you sound just like the wife who digs up old arguments to fuel the current one.

I see. Or perhaps it's just someone who thinks that since you've chosen to question his opinions, he should perhaps remind you that you recently felt the need to defend your own quite vigorously...

Either way, the wink indicated that I was joking with you. Chill your boots.

My point was that Canon have aimed this particular toy at the general market, not exclusively the Pro market. There are a lot of very rich armatures out there that will enjoy the addition of live-view on their camera. Ok it's not for you but then again I doubt very much that you would use this class of camera for your work.

The 1Ds Mk3 is aimed at the general market? At rich amateurs..? That's what I've been talking about, if you've been reading my posts. I realise that this thread started out discussing the 40D, but some of us are not 40D customers, so we offered opinions based on what motivates us to subscribe to certain features. Hopefully as pros or experts, our opinions still matter, eh..?


At the end of the day I just don't see the attraction with Live View, and so I voiced my opinion and explained why. DSLR users are blessed with excellent, real-life viewfinders which give them a crystal clear, 3D, accurate view of proceedings; something a small LCD screen cannot offer. Given that the Canon versions appear not to swivel or tilt, there appears to be no real benefits in the context of DSLR photography, despite certain people's best efforts to convince us otherwise. Therefore I remain unconvinced by the technology (in this context) and no amount of flimsy analogies, sarcastic comments or otherwise from those who believe in Live View are going to alter that. Sorry...

[paul.r.w]

Re: The new Canon 40D

This is quite amusing...lol

It's obvious why they have put Live View on their new cameras...so they sell more. Someone else has it so we have to!

[Patrick]

Re: The new Canon 40D

Todays cheaper SatNavs are ok, but to be honest they're not a huge improvement on the older versions, and these jokes about being led into farmers fields are not rare by any means. However they're now affordable, so people buy them in the belief that they'll be a real boon to travel, but so far I've seen no real reason to throw the maps away - never once has the RAC Road Atlas of GB led me into a farmer's field......or a deserted moorland pathway, miles from anywhere (that one's for Stephen...).

I wouldn't be without my SatNav its used constantly and mine being a pocket computer as well automatically logs my mileage in excel.

It greatest value is not getting me from one town to another so much as getting me to a given street in the town or city. You can have a map of the country but its not likely you have an A-Z of every town. Since using my SatNav I am rarely late for appointments with new clients.
I ignore instructions that take me to these silly dirt tracks, they are often cut across routes and you learn to recognize them before getting involved.

Patrick

[Ian]

Re: The new Canon 40D

I wouldn't be without my SatNav its used constantly and mine being a pocket computer as well automatically logs my mileage in excel.

It greatest value is not getting me from one town to another so much as getting me to a given street in the town or city. You can have a map of the country but its not likely you have an A-Z of every town. Since using my SatNav I am rarely late for appointments with new clients.
I ignore instructions that take me to these silly dirt tracks, they are often cut across routes and you learn to recognize them before getting involved.

Patrick

Patrick - nothing to do with this thread - but there is a Private Mail waiting for you; reasonably urgent (about POTD).

Ian

[Ian]

Re: The new Canon 40D

I wouldn't be without my SatNav its used constantly and mine being a pocket computer as well automatically logs my mileage in excel.

It greatest value is not getting me from one town to another so much as getting me to a given street in the town or city. You can have a map of the country but its not likely you have an A-Z of every town. Since using my SatNav I am rarely late for appointments with new clients.
I ignore instructions that take me to these silly dirt tracks, they are often cut across routes and you learn to recognize them before getting involved.

Patrick

Absolutely; I ignore the SatNav a fair bit when I know I need to go a certain way, but when I'm in unfamiliar territory, I'd rather go a slightly inefficient way and get there on time than not get there for some time!

Ian

[Pops]

[Bearface]

Re: The new Canon 40D

Here we go again! My Tom Tom SatNav has led me through some interesting narrow lanes in its time, but it has also no doubt saved me hours of frustration, not just here, but abroad. Just because you prefer maps doesn't mean a SatNav isn't a very useful tool for someone else like me.

And there you go again! People have chosen to introduce obscure analogies to bolster their arguments and yet when I highlight the (well known) inadequacies of Sat Nav, it's somehow a reason to get exited. I didn't suggest for a second that you didn't find Sat Nav useful (you're putting words into my mouth again, despite me politely asking you not to...), I said that I didn't see it the same way as you. Get over it.

Sounds good - I'll certainly keep an open mind - see what I'm trying to get at?

Not really. It wouldn't matter to me if you did or you didn't; I merely told you that there are some decent paddle-change gearboxes out there - what you do with that info is up to you.

I believe you will recognise a practical use if you try something that has one. Will you find Live View useful? Who knows until you try it? But dismissing it out of hand without trying it... not very logical is it?

Ian, I'm fully aware of what Live View does, as well as it's limitations; I'm a photographer! Please don't try to tell me that I need to try it before I can determine it's uses. I've never driven an F1 car either, but I can tell you for sure that it won't carry my shopping in the back and that it won't be economical either. Jeez........

Let me try to close this argument once and for all. Do you believe others to be wrong to decide that Live View is useful as a complementary aid to a DSLR viewfinder, and do you deny that there are people out there that really do find it useful - including professionals? Two questions; yes or no?

I've answered both questions already. If you'd read my posts you'd know that. Frankly I'm appalled that my perfectly valid views are being questioned in this way but as I've said, the answers are there.

[lumix]

Re: The new Canon 40D

Yes. Is that a problem for you too?



I see. Or perhaps it's just someone who thinks that since you've chosen to question his opinions, he should perhaps remind you that you recently felt the need to defend your own quite vigorously...

Either way, the wink indicated that I was joking with you. Chill your boots.



The 1Ds Mk3 is aimed at the general market? At rich amateurs..? That's what I've been talking about, if you've been reading my posts. I realise that this thread started out discussing the 40D, but some of us are not 40D customers, so we offered opinions based on what motivates us to subscribe to certain features. Hopefully as pros or experts, our opinions still matter, eh..?


At the end of the day I just don't see the attraction with Live View, and so I voiced my opinion and explained why. DSLR users are blessed with excellent, real-life viewfinders which give them a crystal clear, 3D, accurate view of proceedings; something a small LCD screen cannot offer. Given that the Canon versions appear not to swivel or tilt, there appears to be no real benefits in the context of DSLR photography, despite certain people's best efforts to convince us otherwise. Therefore I remain unconvinced by the technology (in this context) and no amount of flimsy analogies, sarcastic comments or otherwise from those who believe in Live View are going to alter that. Sorry...

Tim I'm sitting here Lol. I have no problem with you not liking live-view, and my boots are very cool. I just can't believe how many times you have pointed out the pitfalls of live-view compared to conventional optical view. I think we have got the message. Now would be a good time to hold a pol so that others who have not been brave enough to comment can log their opinion. How about a pol then Ian.

[Bearface]

Re: The new Canon 40D

Tim I'm sitting here Lol.

That's encouraging. Standing and typing can become uncomfortable over sustained periods

I have no problem with you not liking live-view, and my boots are very cool. I just can't believe how many times you have pointed out the pitfalls of live-view compared to conventional optical view. I think we have got the message. Now would be a good time to hold a pol so that others who have not been brave enough to comment can log their opinion. How about a pol then Ian.

Well I just thought I'd express my initial thoughts and move on, but Ian seemed to want to keep challenging me and therefore I had to keep defending my position and explaining why. I thought my "message" had been clear from the outset, but clearly it wasn't

A poll based on the current membership would be interesting, but not representative. There are only a handful of professionals here, so my argument that Live View isn't appropriate to serious photography wouldn't get too much in the way of support. But like I said, the results would be interesting nevertheless.

What I want is a meetup where we can hold these debates with a beer in our hands and a smile on our faces. I'm increasingly aware that too much is lost through the written word and the sooner we can all communicate visually (and easily) in the forums via our PCs, the better

[Ian]

Re: The new Canon 40D

What I want is a meetup where we can hold these debates with a beer in our hands and a smile on our faces. I'm increasingly aware that too much is lost through the written word and the sooner we can all communicate visually (and easily) in the forums via our PCs, the better

The medium does make us look different, sometimes very different. I've been involved in online media since 1984, when I was a technical writer on one of the first online magazines, Micronet 800 (joint venture between BT and EMAP), and I'd been a subscriber for a year before that. I have met many people over the years who did not resemble their online persona one iota

Ian

[Stephen]

Re: The new Canon 40D

What I want is a meetup where we can hold these debates with a beer in our hands and a smile on our faces. I'm increasingly aware that too much is lost through the written word and the sooner we can all communicate visually (and easily) in the forums via our PCs, the better

Well I'd say Amen to that

[lumix]

Re: The new Canon 40D

The medium does make us look different, sometimes very different. I've been involved in online media since 1984, when I was a technical writer on one of the first online magazines, Micronet 800 (joint venture between BT and EMAP), and I'd been a subscriber for a year before that. I have met many people over the years who did not resemble their online persona one iota

Ian

Live-view posting? Hang about Tim, Hell I've only just learnt to type with more than one finger. Yes you guessed it I'm now using both hands. How the hell an I going to master smiling and typing.

[Bearface]

Re: The new Canon 40D

Live-view posting? Hang about Tim, Hell I've only just learnt to type with more than one finger. Yes you guessed it I'm now using both hands. How the hell an I going to master smiling and typing.

Ah, but you won't need to type. You'll either log into a conference discussion in which you'll see and be able to chat to your fellow members on your screen, or you'll click on the reply tab in the forum, record your answer via your webcam and save it as a post in the thread of your choice. It seems so futuristic in many ways but the technology is already available, so it'll surely only be a matter of time...

So you only have to worry about mastering smiling. I'd suggest you apply plenty of moisturiser around your mouth at bedtime each day - this will avoid any cracking when the time comes to try your first grin...

[lumix]

Re: The new Canon 40D

Ah, but you won't need to type. You'll either log into a conference discussion in which you'll see and be able to chat to your fellow members on your screen, or you'll click on the reply tab in the forum, record your answer via your webcam and save it as a post in the thread of your choice. It seems so futuristic in many ways but the technology is already available, so it'll surely only be a matter of time...

So you only have to worry about mastering smiling. I'd suggest you apply plenty of moisturiser around your mouth at bedtime each day - this will avoid any cracking when the time comes to try your first grin...

I'll have no problem smiling. I've had plenty of practice today on this forum. And my camera has got a web cam setting. I just knew that would come in handy one day.