Nikon's new D40 - what do you think?

[Ian]

Re: Nikon's new D40 - what do you think?

Well I can identify with that, though suspect that maybe 1DsMkII users would be doing the same, I'm not sure Canon will persevere with another 1.3x crop camera

But Stephen, you are just one of many fervent fans of the EOS-1D 1.3x crop DSLR community so why don't you think they will continue with such a successful formula?

I'm sure a lot of pros that rely on telephoto shooting will not be at all happy if the 1D Mark IIn successor is full frame. It will also add hundreds to the price.

But on the other side of the coin, three different sensor sizes from one DSLR manufacturer is very confusing.

Ian

[Stephen]

Re: Nikon's new D40 - what do you think?

But Stephen, you are just one of many fervent fans of the EOS-1D 1.3x crop DSLR community so why don't you think they will continue with such a successful formula?

I'm sure a lot of pros that rely on telephoto shooting will not be at all happy if the 1D Mark IIn successor is full frame. It will also add hundreds to the price.

But on the other side of the coin, three different sensor sizes from one DSLR manufacturer is very confusing.

Ian

Indeed you are right about being a fan of the 1DMkII and the 1.3x crop factor. However I seem to remember reading in a Canon white paper that they had no plans to develop it further and produce another camera with that sensor in it. I'm sure also that I have read other comments to this effect in Canon forums.

Canon may of course have a change of plan, it would be a shame to lose it, maybe it its dropped in favour of something else and I can hardly believe it will be the merging of the 1D with the 1Ds, then the 1DMkIIN will surely be a collectors item and be like hens teeth to get hold of.

[Archangel]

Re: Nikon's new D40 - what do you think?

I think that the most important factor of the D40 announcement is not the 6MP sensor but instead the size of the camera. While a straight competitor to the D40, the Canon 400D offers a 10MP sensor, Nikon decides to keep the resolution at 6MP. In other words, I think the D40 is not out to cut sales from the 400D, but possibly an intermediate step for Nikon in order to enter the superzoom category in the near future.

I think that in the DSLR category, Nikon is the leader, but personaly I would wait for the D45 with 7MP resolution (which I think is the barrier that should separate compacts from DSLRs) and with internal focus drive motor and manual focus.


Regards

George

[Ian]

Re: Nikon's new D40 - what do you think?

I think that the most important factor of the D40 announcement is not the 6MP sensor but instead the size of the camera. While a straight competitor to the D40, the Canon 400D offers a 10MP sensor, Nikon decides to keep the resolution at 6MP. In other words, I think the D40 is not out to cut sales from the 400D, but possibly an intermediate step for Nikon in order to enter the superzoom category in the near future.

not a Canon, but in the long run I can only see the D40 price going down if Nikon are serious about building a big market share.

I think that in the DSLR category, Nikon is the leader, but personaly I would wait for the D45 with 7MP resolution (which I think is the barrier that should separate compacts from DSLRs) and with internal focus drive motor and manual focus.

Actually, Canon is the clear leader in all DSLR categories - the 350D has even been listed as the best-selling digital camera model of all (including compacts) at some points in time.

AF motors in the lens is the way to go and I wonder if this is the beginning of the end for non AF-S lenses. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the next Nikon was AF-S only too.

Regards

George

Ian

[Archangel]

Re: Nikon's new D40 - what do you think?

Actually, Canon is the clear leader in all DSLR categories - the 350D has even been listed as the best-selling digital camera model of all (including compacts) at some points in time.

AF motors in the lens is the way to go and I wonder if this is the beginning of the end for non AF-S lenses. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the next Nikon was AF-S only too.

Ian

Hi Ian,

I disagree with you here a little. I think Nikon has the best image quality in the DSLR category with Canon just a half breath behind and of course I'm expressing personal opinion.
Sales and listings is a different thing and doesn't reflect quality at all times. The motives of buying a camera is not always image quality and especially in the compact p&s category where portability and design matter most.

As far as the Canon compacts are concerned, so far apart from the A710IS and the A700 (slightly noisier than the A710IS) that their photos have sharp concistency from edge to edge all the rest of them (after the A75/A85/A95 and IXUS500) haven't persuade me for their very good image quality in terms of image concistency regardless of reviews and conclusions read in different websites.

Anyway, this is a D40 discussion thread and hopefully a good camera too for those interested. As I said I will wait little more for some other features I want in the upcoming D4x or Dxx


Regards

George

[Ian]

Re: Nikon's new D40 - what do you think?

Hi Ian,

I disagree with you here a little. I think Nikon has the best image quality in the DSLR category with Canon just a half breath behind and of course I'm expressing personal opinion.
Sales and listings is a different thing and doesn't reflect quality at all times. The motives of buying a camera is not always image quality and especially in the compact p&s category where portability and design matter most.

As far as the Canon compacts are concerned, so far apart from the A710IS and the A700 (slightly noisier than the A710IS) that their photos have sharp concistency from edge to edge all the rest of them (after the A75/A85/A95 and IXUS500) haven't persuade me for their very good image quality in terms of image concistency regardless of reviews and conclusions read in different websites.

Anyway, this is a D40 discussion thread and hopefully a good camera too for those interested. As I said I will wait little more for some other features I want in the upcoming D4x or Dxx


Regards

George

Ah - sorry! I thought you were referring to sales!

Image quality is very subjective and even variable. I think some Nikons are better than others and the same with some Canons compared to other Canons.

My friend Jamie Harrison did feature in a UK magazine (What Digital Camera) comparing the Nikon D200 to the Canon EOS-5D - he gave the win to the Canon. It was controversial

Ian

[Archangel]

Re: Nikon's new D40 - what do you think?

Ah - sorry! I thought you were referring to sales!

Image quality is very subjective and even variable. I think some Nikons are better than others and the same with some Canons compared to other Canons.

My friend Jamie Harrison did feature in a UK magazine (What Digital Camera) comparing the Nikon D200 to the Canon EOS-5D - he gave the win to the Canon. It was controversial

Ian

In Sales, Nikon is much behind Canon.
I only see 2 reasons for that:

1. Nikon is a little more conservative in the camera look/design, while Canon shapes appeal beatter to the consumers.

2. Nikon sails their own way. It reminds me of a ship in the open sea. They get the weather forecast from the news, but they ignore the fishermen's opinion from experience and warnings. When the sea gets heavy and there is finaly a shipwreck, then they ask the fishermen around for help.
In other words, they are not so interested to know what features mostly the users want in a camera (while Canon does exactly the opposite), they just put there only the neccessary basics and sometimes other than the very necessary!

Different camera companies, different mentality, different tactics and of course different money


Regards

George

[yoshi]

Re: Nikon's new D40 - what do you think?

I find the comparisons interesting. Hope some of you, too.

Image quality comparisons for various ISO's among D40, D50 and Pentax K100D, eachi with 18-55mm (kit?) lens.
Look at the second half of the page.
Sorry the language is Japanese but anyway...
yoshi

http://www.photo-cafe.jp/scoop/archives/2006/11/d40_vs_d50_vs_k.html

[Ian]

Re: Nikon's new D40 - what do you think?

I find the comparisons interesting. Hope some of you, too.

Image quality comparisons for various ISO's among D40, D50 and Pentax K100D, eachi with 18-55mm (kit?) lens.
Look at the second half of the page.
Sorry the language is Japanese but anyway...
yoshi



http://www.photo-cafe.jp/scoop/archi..._d50_vs_k.html

Hi Yoshi, it's a shame they did not compare the D40 with a D80 or an EOS-400D

Ian

[yoshi]

Re: Nikon's new D40 - what do you think?

Hi Yoshi, it's a shame they did not compare the D40 with a D80 or an EOS-400D

Ian

Hi Ian,
Do you want to compare the different sensors? It must be also interesting.

What is interesting for me about this comparison is that the sample pics are easier to compare with. I understand the three medels D40, D50 and K100D use the same 6MP sensor (please correct me if wrong) and we can observe the differences among the three. The software/concept differences, I suppose.
Although the toy car is dirty and rusted, the D40 seems to be quite good even at ISO 1600 and above.
Overall, less needs of post processing and again IMHO it is important for the target users. Of course D40 is a dSLR so you can also use it like other dSLR's at a later stage.

Forgot to mention that the sample pics were taken at default settings of each model and the exposure and the white balance were manually set using a grey card.

[Ian]

Re: Nikon's new D40 - what do you think?

Hi Ian,
Do you want to compare the different sensors? It must be also interesting.

What is interesting for me about this comparison is that the sample pics are easier to compare with. I understand the three medels D40, D50 and K100D use the same 6MP sensor (please correct me if wrong) and we can observe the differences among the three. The software/concept differences, I suppose.
Although the toy car is dirty and rusted, the D40 seems to be quite good even at ISO 1600 and above.
Overall, less needs of post processing and again IMHO it is important for the target users. Of course D40 is a dSLR so you can also use it like other dSLR's at a later stage.

Forgot to mention that the sample pics were taken at default settings of each model and the exposure and the white balance were manually set using a grey card.

I'm surprised you said that the white balance was manually set as all three have different grey tones. I also think it's less relevant to do a manual white balance adjustment as few of the users of these cameras will bother to do this. But the Nikon seems to be the most neutral.

Yes I'd like to see if there is a significant difference between the 10MP and 6MP sensors at 800 and 1600 ISO.

I liked the fact that the toy car was old and a bit dirty as there was more detail to see and to preserve - a good idea by the tester!

Ian

[Tinka]

Re: Nikon's new D40 - what do you think?

Hi if you give me one I'll Test it for a couple of years.

[yoshi]

Re: Nikon's new D40 - what do you think?

Hi Tinka,
A good idea.
it looks like production version of D40 is short supply at the moment.
A reviewer of the following site used a pre-production model. What do you think?
The review says noise reduction function of D40 works for ISO800 or above. IMHO IQ of ISO800 to 1600 looks like acceptable for me whether or not with noise reduction.
I suspect many potential users use the camera also indoors so high ISO perfomance must be very important. The auto ISO mode helps if IQ of high ISO is ok.
Our rumor sites are noisier now, talking about when Canon introduces a real entry model. 400D/Rebel XTi(?) is just too expensive for this purpose - at least 400D is not an entry model in the emerging "real" entry market.

yoshi

http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/review/2006/11/21/5095.html

(ISO comparisons at the last one third of the page)

[Ian]

Re: Nikon's new D40 - what do you think?

Indeed you are right about being a fan of the 1DMkII and the 1.3x crop factor. However I seem to remember reading in a Canon white paper that they had no plans to develop it further and produce another camera with that sensor in it. I'm sure also that I have read other comments to this effect in Canon forums.

Canon may of course have a change of plan, it would be a shame to lose it, maybe it its dropped in favour of something else and I can hardly believe it will be the merging of the 1D with the 1Ds, then the 1DMkIIN will surely be a collectors item and be like hens teeth to get hold of.

The Canon white paper you speak of does explain very well why larger sensors are always going to be so much more expensive, but the 1.3x APS-H sensor is less than half the exorbitant price ofthe FF one and it's the mainstay of sports/action, wildlife and press photographers using the EOS-1D Mark II so I would expect Canon to support them with this sensor size in future models. In fact it would be outrageous of them not to unless the cost issue became really unmanageable.

Ian

[Eolake]

Re: Nikon's new D40 - what do you think?

My feeling is it does not matter for the big market: DSLR beginners, they don't know about most of those things.
And neither for advanced users like myself. I have just ordered a D40. I already have a D200 which I love, but I also long have wanted a very light and compact camera.

The bigger mistake is that neither Nikon nor Canon so far has embraced in-body image stabilization.