I can snap my kids at the school play, can't I?

[DPNow]

Here is a summary or excerpt from an article that has just been published on DPNow:

Three years ago a Dad was met by police and threatened with arrest because he warned that he was intending to ignore a ban on photography during a Christmas play performance imposed by the school. Now the UK's Information Commissioner has declared that it's not illegal to photograph school plays, but that it should be encouraged. We explore the debate.

Click here to read the whole article...

[ash]

Re: I can snap my kids at the school play, can't I?

Ive just this afternoon been to see Thomas in the Nativity Play at his school and although the head teacher did say at the beginning that there were no objections from any parents, not to photograph or video while the play was on and said this was because it would put the children off concentrating on the play, she did state that it was perfectly fine to take photographs after the play had finished, which I did.

I did kind of agree with this approach as most joe blogs that are not keen photographers would have their cam on auto and that would mean flashes going off left right and centre while the play was on.

Incidently the play was recorded on video by the school itself on a sony handycam very similar to one I have by a teacher. So if this is the case then why would it not be acceptable to say that video is fine but no flash photography that would put off the kids!
If a teacher is allowed to video my kids then why can't I?
Anyway here is a pic taken on my iphone this afternoon.

The 3 Kings! Fabian, Nora & Thomas on the end.

[Ian]

Re: I can snap my kids at the school play, can't I?

Countless schools around the country in all types of community have no problems with parents photographing their children while they perform their plays so what right do some schools have to arbitrarily impose their own bans? Ash, you have my sympathy!

Ian

[Graham_of_Rainham]

Re: I can snap my kids at the school play, can't I?

<snip> what right do some schools have to arbitrarily impose their own bans? <snip>
Ian

Having been a Chair of Governors, I have been the target of much criticism for introducing such a policy.

To start with the School has every right to impose such restrictions in the same way as any other organisation restricts photography on its property.

As to why: It is the same type of parents, that park their 4x4 on the zig zag markings outside the school to drop off little "Leigh" (so named because that's where it was conceived ) that get out of their seat and walk to the front to take pictures/video of their little treasure, gesturing and calling out for them to move from the back (having been cast as a sheep)

There are few that will even consider telling them not to do this, for fear of bringing the whole proceedings to a halt as they vent their wrath on anyone that dare challenge their rights to do whatever they dam well please...

The head teacher has to deal with this type on a daily basis so transfering the policy to the governing body is a good way of easing their burden.

Try as you might to allow people to use common sence and not use flash or bright lights from phones, people will simply ignore the "rules" knowing full well that they will not be thrown out, baned, or punished in any way. You can't even say yes to someone that has a camera with low light capability and knows what they are doing, because straight away "They" will say "Well ess usin one..."

I'm no longer involved in it, but I can only guess it's worse now, than it was a few years ago...

The biggest losers in this are the majority of people who want to have these wonderful memories and are prepared to use common sense, waiting for the right moment (applause, breaks or the end) but have it ruined for them by the thoughtless, selfish few.

SO: Do you allow a free for all and have people fighting for the front row with thier iphones, or ban the use of imaging devices all togeather. No matter what you do, it will be wrong...

[Ian]

Re: I can snap my kids at the school play, can't I?

Graham, I honestly don't think that the problem you described really exists or is nearly as bad as your governors fear. All you need to do is to say before the performance starts, no flash please during the performance and 9/10 times all is well. The odd accidental flash doesn't ruin the evening, anyway.

Much more damaging is the imposition of bans in the first place.

By 'right' I meant from a moral standpoint, not a technical one. Schools have a right not to stage a performance at all, but that would be an outrageous policy.

Ian

[mike_j]

Re: I can snap my kids at the school play, can't I?

I went to my Granchildrens' play and the Headteacher asked for "no flash" but 90% of the parents used compacts with flash freely throughout the performance. I almost felt virtuous in not even having a flash with me. Mind you - the pictures were pretty awful.

[Ian]

Re: I can snap my kids at the school play, can't I?

I went to my Granchildrens' play and the Headteacher asked for "no flash" but 90% of the parents used compacts with flash freely throughout the performance. I almost felt virtuous in not even having a flash with me. Mind you - the pictures were pretty awful.

Interesting, that's not my experience. But if there is a history of flash problems, if I was the head I'd make a firm request that placed an unequivocal onus on the parents to ensure that they had switched the flash off on their cameras.

I find that the biggest problem these days is phones going off.

Ian

[wsearfoss]

Re: I can snap my kids at the school play, can't I?

I need to speak up here. I have seen the RUDE people that Graham is speaking about, and if they cannot follow rules about remaining seated, why will they follow rules about photography? That is the equivalent of forbidding me ice cream because someone next to me is fat. The REAL reason for stupid rules like this is so that people don’t actually have conflict with one rude person.

That being said, if someone gets up put of their seat and is distraction to others then the person should be escorted out. You only have to escort someone out once or twice and most other people will follow the rules.

At every concert I attend of my children, the director asks everyone to refrain from using a flash and explains that the flash distracts the performers. She also asks that they silence or turn off their cell phones. She has also announced that if someone felt the need to talk on the phone was more important than the concert she would halt the concert until the conversation was completed. (No one has called her bluff)

Now about copy right infringement, my son was playing saxophone in a music competition; everyone was told that because of copyright VIDEO recording was not allowed (non flash photography was OK). A woman sneakily video taped her son and was caught. Her son and his group had won 1st prize in the competition and were disqualified because of the infraction. The parents of the other children were very angry at her, and she was told that the director had to consider whether her son could compete again. I can tell you no one has tried that again.

Having been a Chair of Governors, I have been the target of much criticism for introducing such a policy.

To start with the School has every right to impose such restrictions in the same way as any other organisation restricts photography on its property.

As to why: It is the same type of parents, that park their 4x4 on the zig zag markings outside the school to drop off little "Leigh" (so named because that's where it was conceived ) that get out of their seat and walk to the front to take pictures/video of their little treasure, gesturing and calling out for them to move from the back (having been cast as a sheep)

There are few that will even consider telling them not to do this, for fear of bringing the whole proceedings to a halt as they vent their wrath on anyone that dare challenge their rights to do whatever they dam well please...

The head teacher has to deal with this type on a daily basis so transfering the policy to the governing body is a good way of easing their burden.

Try as you might to allow people to use common sence and not use flash or bright lights from phones, people will simply ignore the "rules" knowing full well that they will not be thrown out, baned, or punished in any way. You can't even say yes to someone that has a camera with low light capability and knows what they are doing, because straight away "They" will say "Well ess usin one..."

I'm no longer involved in it, but I can only guess it's worse now, than it was a few years ago...

The biggest losers in this are the majority of people who want to have these wonderful memories and are prepared to use common sense, waiting for the right moment (applause, breaks or the end) but have it ruined for them by the thoughtless, selfish few.

SO: Do you allow a free for all and have people fighting for the front row with thier iphones, or ban the use of imaging devices all togeather. No matter what you do, it will be wrong...

[ekkl]

Re: I can snap my kids at the school play, can't I?

Well I must be lucky as my daughters school is quite laid back about photography, all the head says is try and avoid using flash and don't publish the pictures on the internet.

SO: Do you allow a free for all and have people fighting for the front row with thier iphones, or ban the use of imaging devices all togeather. No matter what you do, it will be wrong...

There are no 4x4's outside on the zigzags and no parents scrambling for the front row to take pictures on their iphones either, the parents here who wish to take pictures line up either side of the hall and take them using mainly compacts. They are all quite sensible when it comes to taking pictures. I have never seen any problems at all.

I have taken loads over the years of the school plays and sports days and have even had the odd parent ask for copies of pictures, never had any problems. If the school did bring in a no photography ban there would be a riot!

[Ian]

Re: I can snap my kids at the school play, can't I?

Well I must be lucky as my daughters school is quite laid back about photography, all the head says is try and avoid using flash and don't publish the pictures on the internet.



There are no 4x4's outside on the zigzags and no parents scrambling for the front row to take pictures on their iphones either, the parents here who wish to take pictures line up either side of the hall and take them using mainly compacts. They are all quite sensible when it comes to taking pictures. I have never seen any problems at all.

I have taken loads over the years of the school plays and sports days and have even had the odd parent ask for copies of pictures, never had any problems. If the school did bring in a no photography ban there would be a riot!

Hooray - an example of what I am convinced is the vast majority.

This was certainly my experience with our children at primary school and it continues at secondary.

Heads of schools that are less certain of the intelligence of their parents should be forcefully reminded that they are the exception and that before they have any justification for arbitrary bans, that should exhaust all common sense means first.

Ian