Leica M9

[Danny Chau]

If you are a M8/8.2 owner like me, I honestly advice you not to sell or upgrade your camera until you have try and tested the new M9. My initial thought about the new M9 is simply a disappointment. As to me the full frame is a great idea and the additional shooting speed because of duo processor definitely welcomed when compare to the M8. What really missing is the quality dynamic range on the M9 falls short of the M8, all the images seem harsh and lacking highlight and shadow details.

Their latest M seriers brochure is a fine example to show Leica is trying to disguise the contrasty nature of the characteristics of the new M9. Sample files I took during the launch confirms my suspicion, all the highlights are blown out and shadow were clogged up. The nice soft wide dynamic range that I'm so used to the M8/8.2 are all gone, there is hardly the same soul left in the image, in another word the M9's images feels 'cold' in comparison.

I sincerely hope that this is a simple firmware problem, but if they could have managed to give so much informatin in the M8 files, then they should not have any problems to do the same with the M9. The imaging sensor were supposed to be supplied by Kodak, so what when wrong?

The larger pixel count don't necessary give 'better' images, as I still shoot with my 6MP Epson RD1 along my M8.2, D3/D700 which are all great cameras which give files where I can process to the way I want. I can make fine A2 prints with the RD1 and fine 36"x24" prints from the M8, D700 already, so this is not about the pixel count. Why do you think Canon has deliberatly reduce the pixel count but up the size of the imaging sensor on their new G11 compact?

Don't believe a word I said here, check it out for yourself, I love to hear anyones view on this.

Danny

[Ian]

Re: Leica M9

If you are a M8/8.2 owner like me, I honestly advice you not to sell or upgrade your camera until you have try and tested the new M9. My initial thought about the new M9 is simply a disappointment. As to me the full frame is a great idea and the additional shooting speed because of duo processor definitely welcomed when compare to the M8. What really missing is the quality dynamic range on the M9 falls short of the M8, all the images seem harsh and lacking highlight and shadow details.

Their latest M seriers brochure is a fine example to show Leica is trying to disguise the contrasty nature of the characteristics of the new M9. Sample files I took during the launch confirms my suspicion, all the highlights are blown out and shadow were clogged up. The nice soft wide dynamic range that I'm so used to the M8/8.2 are all gone, there is hardly the same soul left in the image, in another word the M9's images feels 'cold' in comparison.

I sincerely hope that this is a simple firmware problem, but if they could have managed to give so much informatin in the M8 files, then they should not have any problems to do the same with the M9. The imaging sensor were supposed to be supplied by Kodak, so what when wrong?

The larger pixel count don't necessary give 'better' images, as I still shoot with my 6MP Epson RD1 along my M8.2, D3/D700 which are all great cameras which give files where I can process to the way I want. I can make fine A2 prints with the RD1 and fine 36"x24" prints from the M8, D700 already, so this is not about the pixel count. Why do you think Canon has deliberatly reduce the pixel count but up the size of the imaging sensor on their new G11 compact?

Don't believe a word I said here, check it out for yourself, I love to hear anyones view on this.

Danny

Is there much of a difference in pixel pitch between the M8 and M9 sensors? I don't think so. Also, a CCD sensor is being used instead of the more fashionable CMOS type, and CCD is supposed to have an advantage for dynamic range.

If your observation is shared by others, then this would be set a serious question mark over Leica's ability to set their cameras up.

Ian

[Danny Chau]

Re: Leica M9

Is there much of a difference in pixel pitch between the M8 and M9 sensors? I don't think so. Also, a CCD sensor is being used instead of the more fashionable CMOS type, and CCD is supposed to have an advantage for dynamic range.

If your observation is shared by others, then this would be set a serious question mark over Leica's ability to set their cameras up.

Ian

This is my initial reaction, and I wish I'm wrong about it. So I would like to hear others comment on this. I thought the same as you regarding the difference between the sensors, but the look and feel of the image from M9 is very different from the M8.2 files that I'm so used to tells me otherwise.

Hopefully I'll get my hands on another camera soon and will let you know whether my feeling is the same as the one I tried.

[Bob Ross]

Re: Leica M9

Is there much of a difference in pixel pitch between the M8 and M9 sensors? I don't think so. Also, a CCD sensor is being used instead of the more fashionable CMOS type, and CCD is supposed to have an advantage for dynamic range.

If your observation is shared by others, then this would be set a serious question mark over Leica's ability to set their cameras up.

Ian

[Danny Chau]

Re: Leica M9

Hi Bob, There are no difference whatsoever in image terms between the M8 and 8.2, I'm sure the increased pixel count between the 8 and 9 says they have exactly the same pixel pitch, but the similarity stops here. While the M8 sensor requires IR filter the M9 don't, this is because they have incorporated the IR filter plus micro lenses arrangement to focus lights right up towards the edge of the frame. This meant although the sensor and pixel pitch are identical, everything else is not quite the same, I certainly hope that I'm wrong with my short observation, but over the years I've learned to trust my natural instinct as what I'm looking for is emotional content in an image rather than just pure technical abilities.

Hence I'm very interested to hear from others regarding this, I hope I'll get my hand on another sample to play with soon , for the meantime, my 8.2 serves me well and I'm intend to keep this camera for good. Meaning the M9 or the next M10 will be an addition and not as a replacement, providing the emotional content appeals to my liking.

Danny

[Bob Ross]

Re: Leica M9

Hi Danny,
Yes, the M9's sensor has been tweaked. Besides the IR cut filter, apparently the CFA colors have been changed, with red upped and green & blue reduced.
At the moment, I think most of the raw developers aren't quite there, with C1 getting the most compliments. One poster that I read today who has both the 8 & 9, said that in his opinion, the M9's images were a noticeable improvement.
I'm not sure what settings you had going with your images or what raw developer you used. Some folks are reporting blotches from some raw developers. We should have more users in the US next week as the first shipments start to arrive, so we'll have lots of opinions to sort through.
Bob

[Danny Chau]

Re: Leica M9

Hi Bob,
Just found this site with plenty of M9 images, most of the highlights from this series are blown out, while the 8.2 seem fair better in this department:

http://www.slack.co.uk/m9/baku/large-12.html

Danny

[Ian]

Re: Leica M9

This is going to run and run, I feel

Ian

[Bob Ross]

Re: Leica M9

Hi Bob,
Just found this site with plenty of M9 images, most of the highlights from this series are blown out, while the 8.2 seem fair better in this department:

http://www.slack.co.uk/m9/baku/large-12.html

Danny

HI Danny,
Those are Jono's pictures (mentioned in my reply to Ian) taken not with an M9 but a P864 and the firmware was a work in progress as he used the test camera. I wouldn't attribute the blown highlights to the sensor as much as I would to the different meter target. Early M8s did this, too. ono says he feels that the meter is consistantly more accurate than the M8. Again the raw converters might be the gremlin. Guy Mancuso over on the getdpi forums is shooting in the Arizona sun with a current loaner M9 from Leica. DR and highlight rendering will certainly come to the top in that kind of light.
Bob

[Bob Ross]

Re: Leica M9

This is going to run and run, I feel

Ian

Not to worry Ian, it will dissipate much sooner than the M8 saga did
Bob