important awareness

[fluffy penguin]

Apologies to anyone, I have borrowed the link from someone else on another site.

But thought it was interesting and alarming reading

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/visual_arts/article3574763.ece

[ash]

Re: important awareness

Ok Fluffy, a very lengthy read which i have skimmed through and not entirely sure what your point is, although i do agree that if you wish to take alot of street photography of people, i would recomend a high end compact such as the canon g9, this makes you look like a tourist and its very easy with a cam like this to seem like you dont no what your doing, anything that resembles a slr and people dont like that, ive been there and dunit!
As they say int yorkshire 'theres nowt so funny as folk' and to be honest, if im out for the day with my family, I dont really want some stranger taking pictures of us, so I see both sides. So when Im on the back of the camera I respect this, but I can Imagine alot of photographers dont.

[fluffy penguin]

Re: important awareness

yes I know it was a long read, but still feel it was worth it.
also felt there was some good links in it.

I also feel that if we carry on with this paranoid state we will lose a lot of herratage. (sp).

My point also was to be careful and respectful. as you say from the other side your not into being photoed yourself.

[Unregistered]

Re: important awareness

yes I know it was a long read, but still feel it was worth it.
also felt there was some good links in it.

I also feel that if we carry on with this paranoid state we will lose a lot of herratage. (sp).

My point also was to be careful and respectful. as you say from the other side your not into being photoed yourself.

Do Not blame the Authorities or put everything down to paranoia, Blame the terrorists and people that kill and maim innocent citizens, Ask what if one of those "STREET" photographers were really planning an act of terror in which your loved ones would be put in danger, would you be being paranoid? or just careful?

[devilgas]

Re: important awareness

Do Not blame the Authorities or put everything down to paranoia, Blame the terrorists and people that kill and maim innocent citizens, Ask what if one of those "STREET" photographers were really planning an act of terror in which your loved ones would be put in danger, would you be being paranoid? or just careful?

so a blanket ban of street photography is the answer? worked with guns didn't it? never ever hear of any shootings in the uk any more do we?
the usual answer is to punish the many for the acts of a few.

what i ask myself is why you chose to post anonymously. what are YOU hiding?

[fluffy penguin]

Re: important awareness

Do Not blame the Authorities or put everything down to paranoia, Blame the terrorists and people that kill and maim innocent citizens, Ask what if one of those "STREET" photographers were really planning an act of terror in which your loved ones would be put in danger, would you be being paranoid? or just careful?

I was not blaming Authorities
I was saying about the situation-state we were in.
We all have to take responsibility
I also ask why you are hiding behind guest.
But before having a go at someone read what they have put.

[DTD]

Re: important awareness

Austin Mitchell MP (a keen amateur photographer) has tabled an early day motion supporting the right of people to take photos in public. You can see if your MP has signed it (so far over 100 have) here:

http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMDetails.aspx?EDMID=35375&SESSION=891

If they haven't and you feel this issue is important, why not contact your MP and raise the issue with them?

Labeling photography a 'suspicious' activity doesn't do anything to stop terrorism.
It's more about creating a climate of fear and being seen to be 'doing something' (like parking tanks outside airports).

[Unregistered]

Re: important awareness

I was not blaming Authorities
I was saying about the situation-state we were in.
We all have to take responsibility
I also ask why you are hiding behind guest.
But before having a go at someone read what they have put.

Are you offended by my anonimity or by by what I said? I did not "have a go" at anyone, merely put another point of view, I did read and digest what others, including yourself have said, I did not say that "Street photography should be banned, just that We cannot blame the authorities, whoever they may be, for the acts of the minority called terrorists. Ask youself this, if someone was taking photographs of a shoping center unchallanged, and it was later bombed and your loved one was killed or maimed, if it was then proved to be that the unknown photographer had used the photographs to assess the security and layout of the center for the said purpose of terror activities, Would you not question why the security people/shop keepers or center manager did not challenge the photographer? I think you would.

[devilgas]

Re: important awareness

Are you offended by my anonimity or by by what I said? I did not "have a go" at anyone, merely put another point of view, I did read and digest what others, including yourself have said, I did not say that "Street photography should be banned, just that We cannot blame the authorities, whoever they may be, for the acts of the minority called terrorists. Ask youself this, if someone was taking photographs of a shoping center unchallanged, and it was later bombed and your loved one was killed or maimed, if it was then proved to be that the unknown photographer had used the photographs to assess the security and layout of the center for the said purpose of terror activities, Would you not question why the security people/shop keepers or center manager did not challenge the photographer? I think you would.

i challenge this perception.

do you think the london tube / bus bombers walked / photographed their target locations beforehand? my view is that it was a 'blow yourself up somewhere in populated london'
do you think the IRA bombers of the warrington shopping centre did the same? i'd be surprised if they did. simply leave the bomb somewhere that will be full of people and the desired result is achieved.
do you think those that committed the 9/11 atrocities pored over blueprints of the twin towers to determine exactly where to target? again, i sincerely think not.

terror is designed to put fear into people usually by some random act of violence. weakpoints or locations of maximum effect are simply not required as the act is sufficient. military will usually target specific weakpoints as determined by a close target recce. i'd be surprised if terror organisations go to these extents.

from this, your average homosapien in the street taking photos is most likely doing just that, taking photos. if a CTR were underway then i'm sure it'd be completed covertly rather than overtly (or is the simplest way to hide something is have it in full view?) and in plain view of the hundreds of thousands of security cameras dotted around this land.

suggesting the link to the 'terror' word is merely a vehicle to get the general populace to accept it as another 'legitimate' fear which they'd not previously considered.

[fluffy penguin]

Re: important awareness

not so much by your anonimity, because quite rightly you could say I was by hiding behind a nickname.
But I do find it strange that you have joined in a discussion and still stayed as a guest.
I also find it strange, that you have come straight back at me as though a military person with methodical planning.
But I also guess that if they were determined, they would be able to get information with out being too obvious.

[devilgas]

Re: important awareness

before it gets misconstrued and to put my last post into context (for those that haven't followed the link), it relates to the section....

terrorists use cameras for surveillance. Life with a camera might be about to turn tougher."

unregistered merely proved my (until then, unvoiced) point

[DTD]

http://www.dunni.co.uk/cctv.html

[/IMG]

[Pol]

Re: important awareness

Austin Mitchell MP (a keen amateur photographer) has tabled an early day motion supporting the right of people to take photos in public. You can see if your MP has signed it (so far over 100 have) here:

http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMDetails.aspx?EDMID=35375&SESSION=891

If they haven't and you feel this issue is important, why not contact your MP and raise the issue with them?

Labeling photography a 'suspicious' activity doesn't do anything to stop terrorism.
It's more about creating a climate of fear and being seen to be 'doing something' (like parking tanks outside airports).

Thanks for that link. Our MP hasn't signed yet so I've just written to him and urged him to consider the issue and hopefully add his support.

It gets more ridiculous by the day. The BBC and other news agencies are forever asking the general public to send photos an footage of incidents, tragedies etc and using them for their news reports so would we have such extensive news reports without all the help from Joe Public's mobile camera phones, compact cameras, video cameras etc? I doubt it!! They often rely on the general public!

So what about all the aerial photographers flying overhead taking shots of our homes and gardens - then trying to flog the pictures. That's ok is it? One firm came knocking on our door carrying a very detailed picture of our home and garden. Our neighbour is seen clearly as he was sunbathing near the boundary fence. The detail is amazing!!

The security services might spend their time more usefully stopping THAT sort of detailed invasion of privacy! It's not unusual to see the pilot and photographer as they fly over. My home and garden aren't "public places" but that's apparently ok is it?

Pol

[Patrick]

Re: important awareness

Thanks for that link. Our MP hasn't signed yet so I've just written to him and urged him to consider the issue and hopefully add his support.

It gets more ridiculous by the day. The BBC and other news agencies are forever asking the general public to send photos an footage of incidents, tragedies etc and using them for their news reports so would we have such extensive news reports without all the help from Joe Public's mobile camera phones, compact cameras, video cameras etc? I doubt it!! They often rely on the general public!

So what about all the aerial photographers flying overhead taking shots of our homes and gardens - then trying to flog the pictures. That's ok is it? One firm came knocking on our door carrying a very detailed picture of our home and garden. Our neighbour is seen clearly as he was sunbathing near the boundary fence. The detail is amazing!!

The security services might spend their time more usefully stopping THAT sort of detailed invasion of privacy! It's not unusual to see the pilot and photographer as they fly over. My home and garden aren't "public places" but that's apparently ok is it?

Pol

this must not under any circumstances happen.
It would be interesting to hear from our international forum members particularly the USA, if this phenomenon against street photography is taking place there.

Patrick

[paul.r.w]

Re: important awareness

What about all the photographs taken by the public that have helped police with their enquires?