Need Help with Lumix DMC-LX2 JPEG Quality

[Mrpotani]

I just purchased Lumix DMC-LX2 and was pleased with the camera until I downloaded the photos to my PC. I took some JPEG photos at the "Fine" quality setting and other photos in RAW. The RAW pictures came out at 240 dpi but the JPEG photos came through at 72 dpi. This is my first Lumix camera; previously I was using a Nikon Coolpix 5400 which downloaded at 300 dpi. I also use a Nikon D200 which easily downloads both 300 dpi Jpegs & RAW images. With the Lumix, is there a way to shoot JPEGs at 300 dpi and download them that way? (I tried shooting JPEGS at both the basic AND the fine setting and both come out at 72 dpi).
My second question has to do with download software. I prefer to download using Expression Media (formerly called iView), my photo-organizing software, but I can't seem to download any of the Lumix RAW data into Expression Media. I have to use Adobe DNG software to convert RAW data in the Lumix Simple Viewer, save it in Adobe Photoshop, then transfer it back to Expression Media. Can anyone help me figure out how to bypass the Simple Viewer? Or is this an inherent limitation in Lumix products?

[rogleale]

Re: Need Help with Lumix DMC-LX2 JPEG Quality

DPI don't mean anything until you go to print. When you download from your camera only the pixel count is important, and you can ignore the dpi number.
This applies to all cameras, 72 dpi is the historic display figure for computer screens, and when you come to work on your pictures it is ppi which are important for printing.
It is the ppi you choose for output which will determine the definition, and the size of the final pictures printed.

Roger

[Ian]

Re: Need Help with Lumix DMC-LX2 JPEG Quality

I just purchased Lumix DMC-LX2 and was pleased with the camera until I downloaded the photos to my PC. I took some JPEG photos at the "Fine" quality setting and other photos in RAW. The RAW pictures came out at 240 dpi but the JPEG photos came through at 72 dpi. This is my first Lumix camera; previously I was using a Nikon Coolpix 5400 which downloaded at 300 dpi. I also use a Nikon D200 which easily downloads both 300 dpi Jpegs & RAW images. With the Lumix, is there a way to shoot JPEGs at 300 dpi and download them that way? (I tried shooting JPEGS at both the basic AND the fine setting and both come out at 72 dpi).
My second question has to do with download software. I prefer to download using Expression Media (formerly called iView), my photo-organizing software, but I can't seem to download any of the Lumix RAW data into Expression Media. I have to use Adobe DNG software to convert RAW data in the Lumix Simple Viewer, save it in Adobe Photoshop, then transfer it back to Expression Media. Can anyone help me figure out how to bypass the Simple Viewer? Or is this an inherent limitation in Lumix products?

Roger, who also answered you, is absolutely right. the dpi assigned to an image file by the camera is practically meaningless. Just print to the size you want using the settings in your print dialogue box.

Expression Media may not yet support the Panasonic LX2 RAW files - I can't see it listed yet in Windows RAW CODEC support.

Ian

[Mrpotani]

Re: Need Help with Lumix DMC-LX2 JPEG Quality

Roger & Ian, thanks for your answers. Your answers generated a further question, which has to do with printing. I print my images through Photoshop after I've done any necessary Photoshop adjustments on the image. The pictures look awfully unsharp when first viewed through Photoshop. I've been resizing them (down) and increasing their dpi to 300 before making any Photoshop adjustments. I've not had to do this preliminary step with my Nikon images. I would greatly appreciate any input or tips you might have on this process with the Lumix. Again, many thanks for any help!

[Ian]

Re: Need Help with Lumix DMC-LX2 JPEG Quality

Roger & Ian, thanks for your answers. Your answers generated a further question, which has to do with printing. I print my images through Photoshop after I've done any necessary Photoshop adjustments on the image. The pictures look awfully unsharp when first viewed through Photoshop. I've been resizing them (down) and increasing their dpi to 300 before making any Photoshop adjustments. I've not had to do this preliminary step with my Nikon images. I would greatly appreciate any input or tips you might have on this process with the Lumix. Again, many thanks for any help!

Forget about the 'dpi' issue - it's just a distraction and possibly causing you to modify your images unnecessarily and detrimentally.

It's possible that by chanding from 72dpi to 300dpi in Photoshop you have resized the picture, making it a lot bigger and making it look softer too. You shouldn't do this.

Start over and when you choose the size you want to print the image to, the printer driver will compute the necessary number of image pixels that re required to fit the image into the printed space.

Ian

[Jocelyn Walker]

Re: Need Help with Lumix DMC-LX2 JPEG Quality

I've also been quite disappointed before with the really unsharp & seemingly out of focus shots on CS2 Photoshop taken with my Panasonic (Lumix) FZ 30 before. Only once downsized do they seem a fair bit sharper. Does this not defeat the object somewhere, somehow of having the superzoom, 4:3 & upwards if most shots look so out of focus they require downsizing? Is this a trait of Lumix cameras or is it something to do with their software when downloading to computer using Simple Viewer of PhotBase 4.5?

[Ian]

Re: Need Help with Lumix DMC-LX2 JPEG Quality

I've also been quite disappointed before with the really unsharp & seemingly out of focus shots on CS2 Photoshop taken with my Panasonic (Lumix) FZ 30 before. Only once downsized do they seem a fair bit sharper. Does this not defeat the object somewhere, somehow of having the superzoom, 4:3 & upwards if most shots look so out of focus they require downsizing? Is this a trait of Lumix cameras or is it something to do with their software when downloading to computer using Simple Viewer of PhotBase 4.5?

Is this when viewed on-screen or viewing a print?

Ian

[rogleale]

Re: Need Help with Lumix DMC-LX2 JPEG Quality

Hi Jocelyn,

Ian beat me to it!
I have to say straight away that I think that you are blaming the camera for some shortcoming in your processing procedures.

First of all - Are you complaining about print quality or what you see on the computer screen? To see the effects of sharpening in Photoshop it is essential that you view at 100%, or at least at a percentage which means that PS will not invent pixels and produce the stepladder effect. 100% is best.
Secondly - Have you had ANY good prints,or has every one been bad? If you have had some good ones it proves that the camera is capable of producing them.

The FZ30 at 4:3 outputs an image of roughly 3200 x 2400 pixels, and on a Canon printer at 300ppi a good print should be made at 10" x 8", or an Epson at 240 ppi you should get an acceptable print of 13" x 10". In fact at these sizes most people would not see any difference if printed at 150 ppi. This with no re-sizing at all.

I would suggest that you try this! With no re-sizing done and the CS sharpening Unsharp mask tool set to 100% and 1 pixel, applied just before printing, print at the 300 or 150 ppi setting for your printer, and check the result. These will probably not be the best settings, but are just a starting point.

The FZ30, although not using the quietist chip, is capable of acceptable results at this size.

Let us know if you try it.

Roger

[Ian]

Re: Need Help with Lumix DMC-LX2 JPEG Quality

Hi Jocelyn,

Ian beat me to it!
I have to say straight away that I think that you are blaming the camera for some shortcoming in your processing procedures.

First of all - Are you complaining about print quality or what you see on the computer screen? To see the effects of sharpening in Photoshop it is essential that you view at 100%, or at least at a percentage which means that PS will not invent pixels and produce the stepladder effect. 100% is best.
Secondly - Have you had ANY good prints,or has every one been bad? If you have had some good ones it proves that the camera is capable of producing them.

The FZ30 at 4:3 outputs an image of roughly 3200 x 2400 pixels, and on a Canon printer at 300ppi a good print should be made at 10" x 8", or an Epson at 240 ppi you should get an acceptable print of 13" x 10". In fact at these sizes most people would not see any difference if printed at 150 ppi. This with no re-sizing at all.

I would suggest that you try this! With no re-sizing done and the CS sharpening Unsharp mask tool set to 100% and 1 pixel, applied just before printing, print at the 300 or 150 ppi setting for your printer, and check the result. These will probably not be the best settings, but are just a starting point.

The FZ30, although not using the quietist chip, is capable of acceptable results at this size.

Let us know if you try it.

Roger

Straight to the point, eh, Roger?!

I would simply point out that if viewing on-screen at 1:1 you will see a blurry and messy representation of the detail, but this is primarily because of the very high magnification of a very high resolution image. Everything should look a lot more normal once printed and viewed in the customary manner.

Another thing to point out is that Photoshop doesn't do a full resample when you resize the view. 50% will look OK, but sizes like 43, 72, 54, etc., will see a harsh representation of what should be smooth edges, among other things.

Ian

[rogleale]

Re: Need Help with Lumix DMC-LX2 JPEG Quality

Just trying to be helpful Ian! Hope I didn't seem offensive.
I use 100%, or rather 'Actual Pixels' all the time for initial sharpening because I find it much easier to see if any haloing is starting to show up, when I am happy with the result in PS I print from Qimage which is very good at applying the final output sharpening for the printer.

Just as an aside Ian, have you tried the trial of Qimage? I am not connected in any way with DDI Software, but I have convinced several acquaintances of the excellent results obtained if you are into doing your own printing. I just talk them into doing three prints of the same photo, any photo, same settings, one from PS, one from Lightroom, and one from Qimage. There is a discernible difference.

Roger

[Ian]

Re: Need Help with Lumix DMC-LX2 JPEG Quality

Just trying to be helpful Ian! Hope I didn't seem offensive.
I use 100%, or rather 'Actual Pixels' all the time for initial sharpening because I find it much easier to see if any haloing is starting to show up, when I am happy with the result in PS I print from Qimage which is very good at applying the final output sharpening for the printer.

Just as an aside Ian, have you tried the trial of Qimage? I am not connected in any way with DDI Software, but I have convinced several acquaintances of the excellent results obtained if you are into doing your own printing. I just talk them into doing three prints of the same photo, any photo, same settings, one from PS, one from Lightroom, and one from Qimage. There is a discernible difference.

Roger

Qimage is one of those programs I keep on saying to myself - I must try it and never get around to it. I will do my best to download it this time

Ian

[Jocelyn Walker]

Re: Need Help with Lumix DMC-LX2 JPEG Quality

Ian, this is when viewed on the computer! Once downsized on either CS2 or Paintshop, the clarity improves! I can't say that I've had the same problem with my Nikon E5900.

[Ian]

Re: Need Help with Lumix DMC-LX2 JPEG Quality

Ian, this is when viewed on the computer! Once downsized on either CS2 or Paintshop, the clarity improves! I can't say that I've had the same problem with my Nikon E5900.

Hi Jocelyn,

The Nikon E5900's sensor is only half the resolution of the LX2, so each pixel you see represents twice as much of the image information as an LX2 pixel. It's also true to say that LX2 images are processed a great deal more. Panasonic's processing aims to produce a file that prints well.

I noticed that there were concerns increasingly emerging about on-screen evaluation of high resolution image quality and wrote an article discussing this last year. There was also an interesting discussion on the old forum at the same time.

Ian

[Jocelyn Walker]

Re: Need Help with Lumix DMC-LX2 JPEG Quality

When processing my photos, I always check before editing on CS2 at 100% & recheck with almost every step. I have printed 1 or 2 pics taken with my Panasonic, but more so those taken with my Nikon! I have only printed those from Pana after downsizing as they seemed better or clearer images once downsized! I guess I should try printing one before any editing..ie straight from camera & see what the quality of image is like! I have been printing on Epson at what I thought was 300dpi (not 240dpi) As most of my photos are viewed on the computer & very few selected for printing as ink & paper costs are exhorbitant, it's therefore the sharpest looking photo I look at first! After downloading from camera to computer, the first thing I do is run a slideshow! Then view each photo at 100% to select that which appeals most to me, whether for artistic potential or quality/clarity! When processing with CS2 I do sharpen with unsharp mask between 100 & 160 depending on result! I think perhaps one day with a hell of a lot more practice with using the Pana LumixFZ30, I will feel & be more competent & able to produce as many usable pics as I do with my Nikon!

[Jocelyn Walker]

Re: Need Help with Lumix DMC-LX2 JPEG Quality

Thank you Ian, very interesting articles! Much debate! I do realize that the sensor on Nikon is a lot smaller than Panasonic, with less MP. I'm just glad I decided to keep my Nikon as well as buy the Lumix.....swap between the 2!