Are you one of the.........................

[Stephen]

.................Cropper & Chopper brigade.

Following on from a thread HERE that seemed to develop a little into a discussion about composition and cropping, it occurred to me that I was always taught to try and crop in the camera as part of composing an image.

Even today I always attempt to compose my photos in the viewfinder, it seems the natural way of things. There are times however when for some unavoidable reason, even an oversight, I have to crop an image. Not only this but unless it is for some artistic reason I will usually try to keep the same aspect ratio. So if I crop a bit off the side , I try to balance that with some off the top or bottom. (Lightroom is superb for this incidentally)

Now with respect to less experienced people or beginners, I wonder if with some its more a case of taking the picture first, ie point & shoot, then working out after through cropping where the best composition is. In other words cropping & chopping in order to make the picture.

Whaddaya think, are we losing the need to compose in the viewfinder by cropping the picture in the computer

[Autumn]

Re: Are you one of the.........................

Hi Stephen. I think you are right. These days, I am taking more time to try to make sure I fill the screen with exactly what I want plus a little for straightening the horizon etc. .

Of course, as you say there are some occasions when to get in a picture exactly what you want horizontally, you have to add a vertical factor! It is then I find my pictures an odd size, because I hate having bits in a picture that I don't want.

I am aware of the fact that the more correct the picture is initially, the easier it is in the long term and I try to work with these thoughts in mind.

[coupekid]

Re: Are you one of the.........................

Absolutely not!
I personally think it is important to properly compose the image in camera, and not rely on the ability to crop.

I think the same applies (to an extent) with exposure, although at times I do slightly underexpose a shot to avoid blowing out any whites.

[lumix]

Re: Are you one of the.........................

.................Cropper & Chopper brigade.

Following on from a thread HERE that seemed to develop a little into a discussion about composition and cropping, it occurred to me that I was always taught to try and crop in the camera as part of composing an image.

Even today I always attempt to compose my photos in the viewfinder, it seems the natural way of things. There are times however when for some unavoidable reason, even an oversight, I have to crop an image. Not only this but unless it is for some artistic reason I will usually try to keep the same aspect ratio. So if I crop a bit off the side , I try to balance that with some off the top or bottom. (Lightroom is superb for this incidentally)

Now with respect to less experienced people or beginners, I wonder if with some its more a case of taking the picture first, ie point & shoot, then working out after through cropping where the best composition is. In other words cropping & chopping in order to make the picture.

Whaddaya think, are we losing the need to compose in the viewfinder by cropping the picture in the computer

As you probably know I went to a similar school as you and was also taught to compose in the camera. Now I feel that is a reflection of our age. Yes It was probably right in the days of film, but with digital I think we have to except that there are better ways to control composition. I ask you, how many cameras give you an accurate view of the finished image. Not many, and for that reason I would advise lining the shot up with a bit more than you need and then adjust the image on the computer. I often also try alternative crops to see if something I had not considered when taking the picture works better. So what does that make me? a compulsive cropper or a slap-happy-photographer. I don't care which, it's the end result that counts.

[Caz]

Re: Are you one of the.........................

I'd agree with what has gone before... with one proviso.

As a compact camera user, I am limited as to zoom - I will use up to 6x optical zoom. With digital zoom, my compact is capable of up to 24x, but the quality then becomes pretty useless. One day, I will invest in a teleconverter!

However, when using my camera phone I do crop quite a bit - mainly because it ONLY has digital zoom, and I therefore don't use it at all.

[Stephen]

Re: Are you one of the.........................

Absolutely not!
I personally think it is important to properly compose the image in camera, and not rely on the ability to crop.

I think the same applies (to an extent) with exposure, although at times I do slightly underexpose a shot to avoid blowing out any whites.

Indeed, so effectively, underexposing is the 'correct' exposure.

[Stephen]

Re: Are you one of the.........................

As you probably know I went to a similar school as you and was also taught to compose in the camera. Now I feel that is a reflection of our age. Yes It was probably right in the days of film, but with digital I think we have to except that there are better ways to control composition. I ask you, how many cameras give you an accurate view of the finished image. Not many, and for that reason I would advise lining the shot up with a bit more than you need and then adjust the image on the computer. I often also try alternative crops to see if something I had not considered when taking the picture works better. So what does that make me? a compulsive cropper or a slap-happy-photographer. I don't care which, it's the end result that counts.

Ron, I think you are right. Firstly about being 'old school' in terms of cropping in camera. However, I'm aware also that in film days one was very restricted by the format of the film, esp 35mm you got a print which was generally full frame, with transparency you got everything also, there was little chance of being able to crop.

Now when you say there are better ways to control composition in the digital age. Surely there is no better way than in the viewfinder, and with a zoom lens life becomes even easier (apologies to prime lens lovers)

You are also right about leaving some extra space in your image. This is particularly important when you need to correct verticals and horizontals, and you need the space to pull the image to one side. I've just completed a job this week,which required nearly every shot to be corrected for verticals, boy was I glad I had left space to do that.

There is certainly nothing wrong with trying different crops though, as you suggest. Perhaps next time though you must remember to take the picture with more than one viewpoint and composition One of my favourite pics on my wall at home is one that was cropped from a portrait format to a landscape format, doing exactly what you are suggesting.

[devilgas]

Re: Are you one of the.........................

when time allows, then i will always try to get the composition right in-camera, however the type of shooting i normally do, time is not a luxury i'm usually afforded so i am a compulsive cropper.

with the rugby photos, the direction of action is constantly changing so i'll default to the centre focal point, shoot centrally, then post-crop to suit. besides, continually swapping the focal point while legging it up and down the touchline is not exactly a viable option. therefore the final image will usually involve a crop but with the initial image being taken with a degree of cropping specifically in mind.

with the underwater stuff......inanimate subjects will usually be composed so as to require little / no cropping. fast moving / shy fish will generally be caught in the centre of the frame and cropped to suit as, once again, the time you get to capture the shot is very limited.

cropping has and always will be a part of photography and is an essential tool in the learning process. it is possible to take a snapshot and fudge a better composition, however the cropping you perform in trying to improve the composition should hopefully get the beginner / less experienced 'tog thinking more about the viewfinder composition next time they come to shoot a subject.

[StuartR]

Re: Are you one of the.........................

I tend to crop on the computer a fair bit but surely this is not that surprising when the viewfinder on my 350D is only claimed to be 90% accurate, making "get it right first time" in-camera composing difficult?

My new 40D claims 95% viewfinder accuracy so that's an improvement but it also has "live view" which, I believe, shows exactly what the sensor sees, i.e. 100% and you can't get better than that!

[Ian]

Re: Are you one of the.........................

Of course, frame the picture as well as you can in the viewfinder - goes almost without saying. And also don't be leaden-footed; get as close as you can unless you need a particular effect that requires standing back.

But! - If your image needs to be cropped afterwards - don't hold back. It's the final result that really matters.

Even back in my dark room days, I used to crop regularly. That old cleaver trimmer I had was used regularly

Ian

[Ian]

Re: Are you one of the.........................

Indeed, so effectively, underexposing is the 'correct' exposure.

In the analogue days we had very little control over dynamic range - especially if you used transparency film. In the darkroom, you could dodge and burn, but I must admit that I wasn't very good at this

With digital, we have a huge advantage in this respect. It's possible to recover shadows - and even highlights - with great ease.

Ian

[Stephen]

Re: Are you one of the.........................

cropping has and always will be a part of photography and is an essential tool in the learning process. it is possible to take a snapshot and fudge a better composition, however the cropping you perform in trying to improve the composition should hopefully get the beginner / less experienced 'tog thinking more about the viewfinder composition next time they come to shoot a subject.

Thanks for your input Dave. I'd agree with the above. However part of the skill of a good photographer is the natural ability to 'see' or 'visualise' an image and take that shot using the camera. If one has to find that image within the captured frame, and then crop to show it....... well is this the same skill, or just the benefit of hindsight? Always assuming of course that its not simply a case of not being able to get near enough with camera that necessitates cropping

[lumix]

Re: Are you one of the.........................

I'd just like to add that cropping on computer is a great way to learn about composition. Experimenting helps you see and learn how it should be done in camera. Through enough mud against a wall and eventually some will stick. Likewise do plenty of cropping on your computer and you will automatically apply what you learn to framing in camera. There are occasions when you have to take a grab shot, but even then your experience clicks in and you can still get a reasonably composed shot on the quick. I remember when I did weddings for a living that getting it right in camera saved hours of work in the darkroom. Today's professionals now have the benefits of digital and I imagine life is a bit easier for them. With regard to zooming, do remember that your legs are your best zoom. As Ian said get close if you can.

[isityourself]

Re: Are you one of the.........................

Piping in basically with the same view as many above me. Cropping is a great tool and can often be used to tidy up a photo that might otherwise be ruined. Of course, I always try to get the shot right to begin with, but there have been many shots that I thought were framed correctly and only once it was open on the monitor did I realise that I had made a mistake, maybe something was poking into the shot, etc.

[bigbob]

Re: Are you one of the.........................

Most viewfinders give between 91-95% of the picture (high end DSLR's are the exception) .
So although i rarely crop in the computer every now and again some element creeps in that needs a crop , like Stephen if i need to crop in computer i try to leave the aspect ratio the same , i find dragging a corner is the best way to achieve this .
NO!! i don't think cropping in computer is the best thing to do , with all the auto this and auto that in camera's noadays , were in danger of forgetting how to compose properly , use your eyes look around the frame BEFORE pressing that shutter , is the image how you'd like to see it printed ? if not change it before you commit .
Some people are born with a natural eye for composition , some are not , but trying to get everything in place first must be right thing to do .
By all means improve the image if it needs small tweeks , but please don't just shoot and hope you can fix bad composition on the computer .
You will , but you won't learn anything .

B..