Re - New 4 thirds forum - Opinions

[Guest]

I have just read the latest DPnow newsletter and I have to say I am dismayed at the formation of the new forum for 4/3 rds camera users. Why? - I feel this may be a breakaway splinter group which will not serve any useful service which could not served here within DPnow forum. What next? - special forums for Full Frame digital cameras, Canons, Nikons and dare I say it Pentaxes. I am not anti-progress but this forum has been very successful over the last few years and I fear that this sort of thing may lead to its disintigration. What do other people think. ?

[Ian]

Re: Re - New 4 thirds forum - Opinions

I have just read the latest DPnow newsletter and I have to say I am dismayed at the formation of the new forum for 4/3 rds camera users. Why? - I feel this may be a breakaway splinter group which will not serve any useful service which could not served here within DPnow forum. What next? - special forums for Full Frame digital cameras, Canons, Nikons and dare I say it Pentaxes. I am not anti-progress but this forum has been very successful over the last few years and I fear that this sort of thing may lead to its disintigration. What do other people think. ?

Hi Dennis,

I'm very much expecting quite the opposite to your fears

We have already seen a couple of Four Thirds forum members register on DPNow and vice-versa. All along, I have felt that the two site are complementary, not exclusive.

DPNow remains a general purpose site. Four Thirds User is very much a specialist site. I'm sure you wouldn't want to wade through a lot of Four Thirds-specific discussion, but at the same time, I hope Four Thirds people will find the more general or non-platform specific discussions of interest.

And please don't fear that the new site will debilitate DPNow. Much of the work we have done to build the new site - much improved under the skin stuff - will be applied to DPNow in the near future.

I hope you are well-reassured, Dennis.

Ian

[Mike Parr]

Re: Re - New 4 thirds forum - Opinions

Hi Dennis,
I'm one of the people using both sites, I have to say I have enjoyed this site immensly and will continue to do so. On the other hand The 4/3s site has already given me an insight to the resouces that are available to 4/3 users. Without doing a poll I would guess that a certain percentage of users on here have neither heard or realised what the concept is, I dont fully understand it myself and I only own a 4\3 Olympus
I know that if I want general views or photographic advice this is where I'll come, but when I want a specific opinion on a 4/3 related problem , thanks to Ian and his team I can now go to a dedicated site with like minded enthusiasts.
One other benefit is that it promotes photography for what is at the moment a minority. if you look through the lists of peoples equipment youll find lots of Cannon, Nikon, Fuji etc all the common formats so I dont think its meant to appear elitist. If you look at the people signing on there there seems to be a lot of non Uk members, I think we are slower to accept this format here so now we have all resources of those folks, I wonder if we would have seen as many 4/3 users on here.
A bold move by Ian that has been recieved well by many, If anything Ian is promoting this site through 4/3 so we should benefit from a cross over in favour of DPnow.
cheers
Mike

[lumix]

Re: Re - New 4 thirds forum - Opinions

I've just had a quick look at the new site. What has struck me most is that in such a short time there are "Threads: 143, Posts: 383, Members: 303, Active Members: 301".
On this site we have 500 + members but only 103 active. What's holding everyone back from participating on this site. I have also looked at other sites that are younger that this and they seem to have a much more active forum. Come on all you viewers, why not join in and make this an even better site. Your input could make all the difference. So put that mouse down and start using the keyboard.

[Patrick]

Re: Re - New 4 thirds forum - Opinions

I have just read the latest DPnow newsletter and I have to say I am dismayed at the formation of the new forum for 4/3 rds camera users. Why? - I feel this may be a breakaway splinter group which will not serve any useful service which could not served here within DPnow forum. What next? - special forums for Full Frame digital cameras, Canons, Nikons and dare I say it Pentaxes. I am not anti-progress but this forum has been very successful over the last few years and I fear that this sort of thing may lead to its disintigration. What do other people think. ?

I have some sympathy with your point of view Dennis, but the truth is there are out there Nikon, Canon, Pentax, Sigma, Tokina and a host of other specialist sites, so why not a 4/3 site, my concern will be is Ian's and other founders attention taken away from the DP-Now site.There is evidence of this, take picture of the day or rather picture of the day when its remembered. The last 5 pictures of the day over the last month have been, 13th, 20th, 22nd 26th and the 29th quite short of a picture a day.
My opinion is: fine run a 4/3 site but not at the expense of promised features on the DP-Now site otherwise this site will decline.

Patrick

[Ian]

Re: Re - New 4 thirds forum - Opinions

I have some sympathy with your point of view Dennis, but the truth is there are out there Nikon, Canon, Pentax, Sigma, Tokina and a host of other specialist sites, so why not a 4/3 site, my concern will be is Ian's and other founders attention taken away from the DP-Now site.There is evidence of this, take picture of the day or rather picture of the day when its remembered. The last 5 pictures of the day over the last month have been, 13th, 20th, 22nd 26th and the 29th quite short of a picture a day.
My opinion is: fine run a 4/3 site but not at the expense of promised features on the DP-Now site otherwise this site will decline.

Patrick

Hi Patrick, I do accept your well made point. POTD will be returning shortly. There is no doubt that there has been a short-term dilution of resources (mainly my time!) but the new site is actually bringing in revenues that will be reinvested in both sites.

Of course, words are one thing, so let the next few weeks turn those words into facts.

Ian

[Ian]

Re: Re - New 4 thirds forum - Opinions

I've just had a quick look at the new site. What has struck me most is that in such a short time there are "Threads: 143, Posts: 383, Members: 303, Active Members: 301".
On this site we have 500 + members but only 103 active. What's holding everyone back from participating on this site. I have also looked at other sites that are younger that this and they seem to have a much more active forum. Come on all you viewers, why not join in and make this an even better site. Your input could make all the difference. So put that mouse down and start using the keyboard.

Hi Ron,

When something is new, there will be a lot of initial interest. And there is a the big carrot of a prize draw for new forum registrants on the new site.

Four Thirds User is also aiming to be a big fish in the lake, while DPNow is competing in the big sea. But in the long term, DPNow has the greater potential to grow. We'll just have to see. Certainly the traffic is much higher on DPNow than on the new site; the activity there is much more visible. There are certainly many more invisible visitors here.

Ian

[lumix]

Re: Re - New 4 thirds forum - Opinions

Hi Ron,

When something is new, there will be a lot of initial interest. And there is a the big carrot of a prize draw for new forum registrants on the new site.

Four Thirds User is also aiming to be a big fish in the lake, while DPNow is competing in the big sea. But in the long term, DPNow has the greater potential to grow. We'll just have to see. Certainly the traffic is much higher on DPNow than on the new site; the activity there is much more visible. There are certainly many more invisible visitors here.

Ian

I believe the strength of any site is a reflection of the activity of its members. Invisible visitors there may be, but they will only return if the content is regularly refreshed. Sadly this is not happening at the moment on this site. Most post seem to be days old which indicates to me that even the active members are not very active and soon visitors will start to loose interest.

[Patrick]

Re: Re - New 4 thirds forum - Opinions

I believe the strength of any site is a reflection of the activity of its members. Invisible visitors there may be, but they will only return if the content is regularly refreshed. Sadly this is not happening at the moment on this site. Most post seem to be days old which indicates to me that even the active members are not very active and soon visitors will start to loose interest.

[Jocelyn Walker]

Re: Re - New 4 thirds forum - Opinions

It's my personal opinion that if it were not for the VERY few regulars on this forum, there wouldn't be much discussion at all! When anything new is put up for critique or eye of the camera, the same few people comment! These comments are very much appreciated, but fresh, new insight would be welcome! Invisible viewers that aren't contributing to the forum in any way except to increase the viewership...eg 'the most viewers....on such & such day'.....serve what purpose, may I ask? Perhaps some form of helpfull advice or workshop tuts from willing & experienced members, would draw more active membership! This is only a suggestion mind! For example...how to improve ones photography...when to use different lenses & what effects they have! Interesting information eg topic on HDR or whatever you call it! If this is only the realm of Newsletter topics...then hey....that may be the drawcard in dpNow newsletters!

[Kurt]

Re: Re - New 4 thirds forum - Opinions

I must say that I enjoy reading the forums and have received interesting feedback from the few threads I have initiated.

Additionally I do not contribute to many of the critiques as I usually find that someone has already made a point that I agree with, this does not prevent me enjoying the comments already made.

The one disappointment with the site and the most off-putting, in my opinion, is the lack of change in the front page.

[Stephen]

Re: Re - New 4 thirds forum - Opinions

This is proving to be a very interesting thread where mostly the regular members feel its time for a frank expression of opinions. I'd urge anyone else to state how they feel here too.

Ian knows I have similar opinions to some here and indeed I know of others who have expressed their concerns to me privately. I have discussed some of the issues in the past with Ian, and it must be said some suggestions have been addressed. There are however, always going to be periods of transition, peaks and troughs, periods of inactivity and others when it appears busy.

The fact is though that the Front Page of DPNow is not updated regularly enough in an obvious manner, and this leads to people not looking as regularly as they might. As an example the announcement of the Fourthirds-user (FTU) site was made on the front page on 24th July. Yet Dennis and Ron, both valued members did not know until the newsletter went out yesterday 2nd Aug. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

There are a lot of what was recently described to me as "irrelevant news items" posted daily, which unless you click through from the forum "Latest DPNow articles" people will never see. These are essentially Press Releases which are posted as a resource, but I feel sometimes that some could be made more prominent, whilst others are IMO of so limited interest its questionable whether they should be posted at all So there is content added daily, but most is of limited appeal and interest, and one has to question if it justifies the time spent on it.

Regular items need to be Regular, POTD, and Features that promised to be regular become less than intermittant, what happened to Pt2 of the Oly 410 in depth review for example

I can see that there may often not be enough hours in the day, and I know that Ian is going to be using more stuff contributed by freelancers. I have contributed 2 articles, only one published so far, and both Tim and I have ones in the pipeline. Maybe some of you folks with time may like to volunteer your services There was an offer made yesterday to do a book review, not sure if anyone has responded yet.

Maybe some of you would like to make suggestions for future content. Bear in mind though that DPNow is never going to compete with the likes of DPReview when it comes to camera tests, and with this in mind Ian has always tried to report on other photo related gear. We are always willing to hear suggestions for forum based activity, and the Mod team have started various initiatives like themed threads and the Salon. Its hard though to maintain a regular momentum, I haven't entered a pic in the Salon for some time, due to being busy Hopefully the Oxford meet will spur a few on and this will not be the last. I'd personally like to see another training day at Adobe to take place. Any further input from members would be gratefully received and considered.

[lumix]

Re: Re - New 4 thirds forum - Opinions

This is proving to be a very interesting thread where mostly the regular members feel its time for a frank expression of opinions. I'd urge anyone else to state how they feel here too.

Ian knows I have similar opinions to some here and indeed I know of others who have expressed their concerns to me privately. I have discussed some of the issues in the past with Ian, and it must be said some suggestions have been addressed. There are however, always going to be periods of transition, peaks and troughs, periods of inactivity and others when it appears busy.

The fact is though that the Front Page of DPNow is not updated regularly enough in an obvious manner, and this leads to people not looking as regularly as they might. As an example the announcement of the Fourthirds-user (FTU) site was made on the front page on 24th July. Yet Dennis and Ron, both valued members did not know until the newsletter went out yesterday 2nd Aug. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

There are a lot of what was recently described to me as "irrelevant news items" posted daily, which unless you click through from the forum "Latest DPNow articles" people will never see. These are essentially Press Releases which are posted as a resource, but I feel sometimes that some could be made more prominent, whilst others are IMO of so limited interest its questionable whether they should be posted at all So there is content added daily, but most is of limited appeal and interest, and one has to question if it justifies the time spent on it.

Regular items need to be Regular, POTD, and Features that promised to be regular become less than intermittant, what happened to Pt2 of the Oly 410 in depth review for example

I can see that there may often not be enough hours in the day, and I know that Ian is going to be using more stuff contributed by freelancers. I have contributed 2 articles, only one published so far, and both Tim and I have ones in the pipeline. Maybe some of you folks with time may like to volunteer your services There was an offer made yesterday to do a book review, not sure if anyone has responded yet.

Maybe some of you would like to make suggestions for future content. Bear in mind though that DPNow is never going to compete with the likes of DPReview when it comes to camera tests, and with this in mind Ian has always tried to report on other photo related gear. We are always willing to hear suggestions for forum based activity, and the Mod team have started various initiatives like themed threads and the Salon. Its hard though to maintain a regular momentum, I haven't entered a pic in the Salon for some time, due to being busy Hopefully the Oxford meet will spur a few on and this will not be the last. I'd personally like to see another training day at Adobe to take place. Any further input from members would be gratefully received and considered.

You have summed it up nicely Stephen and yes you are right about not knowing till the newsletter arrived. Reasons are as you say. The front page holds little interest at times so gets over looked. One of my main observations is that there is a lack of follow through on things that are started with good intentions but left to fizzle out and get forgotten. What happened to the editing competitions we were promised? Why are we not informed who the lucky winners of monthly prizes are. For example who won the monitor calibrator last month? This information would help promote the competitions and encourage members to get involved. I have also found myself holding back on many occasions from commenting on images, as I don't want a reputation for being Mr Know-it-all. A few other peoples opinions would be nice. Are we just a bit too critical and have frightened people off submitting images. Perhaps one of our invisible visitors would be kind enough to let us know.

[Ian]

Re: Re - New 4 thirds forum - Opinions

Thanks Stephen for taking the time and effort to share some very incisive thoughts.

Now that Four Thirds User has been launched at last (the product if 6 months work behind the scenes) DPNow is back at the top of the agenda.

Today we are announcing a new competition with Ilford to win packs of their new ink-jet photo papers.

Epson UK is sponsoring a new series of articles this month to help new and experienced photographers get more out of their ink-jet printers (and not just Epson printers, I hasten to add). The first article will be published early next week.

There are several reviews in the pipeline, including DxO FilmPack and Stephen's review of a high-end HP notebook aimed at photographers, both of which are in the process of being laid out right now.

Four Thirds User has already earned very useful income - we landed one of our biggest ad deals to date yesterday. This will mean we will be able to invest more in to DPNow, which will get a big internal and external update this autumn using technology we have developed for Four Thirds User. Although Julia and I are not yet in a position to hire additional full time staff, we are talking with a couple of people who may be taken on in a part time function at the DPNow office here in Hemel. And we are committed to commissioning more freelance contributions on a more regular basis.

POTD will return shortly, though I may have to simplify the format. I'd certainly like DPNow people to have a say in which shots get selected, for a start.

Lens reviews are a major plan for the future - we have just taken delivery of a new DXO Analyzer MTF test chart, which cost several hundred pounds. Along with our move to a new office unit last month, we have a larger room for camera and lens testing, though this needs some work over the next couple of weeks before it becomes fully operational.

Adobe UK is committed to another training day with us later in the year, probably October or November - so watch this space.

The Oxford meet will not be the last in the south and I have told Stephen I'd like to join in the next one he arranges in the north.

There is plenty more to say, but I just wanted to share some of the knowledge I have regarding our commitment to making DPNow a much better site.

But to summarise - the new Four Thirds User site is great news for the future of DPNow, certainly not a threat.

Ian

[spl]

Re: Re - New 4 thirds forum - Opinions

Hope my tuppence-worth gives some insight into my situation and that of other people like me who probably choose to remain silent onlookers (unlike me).

This is a very useful site packed full of information (some of which I do not as yet understand, photography being my hobby and not my profession or full time occupation = slower learning times). In addition there is no way I have enough time left over to begin to read all of it although the bits and pieces I do concentrate on have taught me a huge amount.

Because my use is obviously a lot more intermittant than most regulars it makes it difficult to provide continuity either if I comment on someone else's thread or if I initiate one of my own and I just hope that people out there will not think that I am being rude if I don't appear for a few days after starting something or getting a critique or whatever eg. I don't have internet access at all on weekend unless I go to the library which is usually at the bottom of my list of priorities especially on good weather days.

Simiarly it doesn't phase me if people don't respond to my posts as I can accept the people they may interest most may be in a similar position to and at a similar level to me and feel a bit inhibited when it comes to putting something down on the site.