Check this out

[Stephen]

Re: Check this out

In the sample images I took with the 5D2 I did notice also that increasing the exposure in LR3 had the effect of reducing colour noise especially. Increasing the EV in camera seemed to have the same effect

[Ian]

Re: Check this out

In the sample images I took with the 5D2 I did notice also that increasing the exposure in LR3 had the effect of reducing colour noise especially. Increasing the EV in camera seemed to have the same effect

I think we need to be careful with the vocab here The 'exposure' is set by the camera and can't be changed. I think you are referring to the brightness or level in LR3.

To be honest, I'm a bit surprised that you find increasing the brightness in post processing reduces colour noise - it should amplify it. And this time I'm certain about that

Ian

[Ian]

Re: Check this out

It's tricky to evaluate these things on the Web, but here is an example from a much smaller sensor camera - can you guess what ISO this was shot at?



Ian

Here's a 100% (1:1 or 1 image pixel to 1 screen pixel) selection:




Ian

[Bear]

Re: Check this out

that looks pretty good to me Ian - are you going to give us the details ?

[Bear]

Re: Check this out

Here are some examples of my own.

First, no significant post processing, just crop and save as JPEG.

ISO 51,200



ISO 102,400



Noise reduction applied and some other slight adjustments, white balance, contrast and sharpening.

ISO 51,200



ISO 102,400



Now B&W converted from the processed files.

ISO 51,200



ISO 102,400



The processed files are certainly useable for newspaper reproduction and might print OK at smaller sizes.

[Stephen]

Re: Check this out

I think we need to be careful with the vocab here The 'exposure' is set by the camera and can't be changed. I think you are referring to the brightness or level in LR3.

To be honest, I'm a bit surprised that you find increasing the brightness in post processing reduces colour noise - it should amplify it. And this time I'm certain about that

Ian

Perhaps you are right about vocab though to be fair Exposure is the term used in LR.

The colour noise I saw at 0EV was in fact a perceived noise that seemed to disappear at +0.75EV though when I check at 100% it seems there is no real difference

[ash]

Re: Check this out

Impresive, but for a full frame camera its probably on apar with a d700, Ive taken some shots at 3200 on the d90's cropped sensor and that is really impresive for the size of the sensor.

[Bear]

Re: Check this out

The general consensus appears to be that the more recent FF pffering from Canon and Nikon are all pretty much indistinguishable up to around 6400. The D700/D3 pull away from the Canons above this level. The D3s is currently top of the heap by about 2 stops over its Nikon predecessors and 1-2 stops over the current Canon champion which isn't FF at all but is the cropped sensor 1D MkIV. Nikon cropped sensor cameras seem to put in pretty good performances and I suspect that the D90 is probably the bargain of them all. Doesn't share the imaging pipeline with the D300s ?

[ash]

Re: Check this out

Hi Bear, I never like commenting on camera's ive never used and given that the d300s is newer technology I would assume its slightly better if at all than the d90 on iso performance, scrutinized at pixel level it might be better but it costs twice as much, is it worth it? Having used a d700 & a d90 I was more impressed by the d90 than the d700, considering how much they both cost.

[Ian]

Re: Check this out

DxOMark actually rate the D90 RAW output quality to be better than the newer D300s:

http://dxomark.com/index.php/eng/Image-Quality-Database/Compare-cameras/(appareil1)/336%7C0/(appareil2)/294%7C0/(onglet)/0/(brand)/Nikon/(brand2)/Nikon

Ian

[Ian]

Re: Check this out

The general consensus appears to be that the more recent FF pffering from Canon and Nikon are all pretty much indistinguishable up to around 6400. The D700/D3 pull away from the Canons above this level. The D3s is currently top of the heap by about 2 stops over its Nikon predecessors and 1-2 stops over the current Canon champion which isn't FF at all but is the cropped sensor 1D MkIV. Nikon cropped sensor cameras seem to put in pretty good performances and I suspect that the D90 is probably the bargain of them all. Doesn't share the imaging pipeline with the D300s ?

I would trust DxOMark on this and the Canon EOS 1D Mark IV is well behind both the 5D Mark II and the 1Ds Mark III in terms of overall sensor performance, including noise (possibly because it's optimised for shot-to-shot speed).

I think you need compare apples with apples; the D3s noise performance is considerably better than the Canons because its pixel density (being a 12MP sensor) is much lower than the Canons (22MP). The D3s only has an advantage in noise terms - in every other factor (colour depth, dynamic range, tonal range) the 22MP Canons are equal or better.

But the real joker in the pack is the D3X - it out-performs the Canons by a wide margin, and even the D3s in all but noise - and even then the D3X is very impressive, and with two more megapixels than the Canons.

See:

http://dxomark.com/index.php/eng/Image-Quality-Database/Compare-cameras/(appareil1)/341%7C0/(appareil2)/287%7C0/(appareil3)/291%7C0/(onglet)/0/(brand)/Nikon/(brand2)/Nikon/(brand3)/Canon

Ian

[devilgas]

Re: Check this out

having finally downloaded the sample file that stephen took, the noise & sharpness is very impressive. noise is about the same as the 40d on iso 1600, sharpness is equivalent to about iso 400 or 800.
on import into LR2, it automatically applies colour noise reduction of 25. if i slide it to 0, then the colour noise is significant @ 100% zoom, but still very useable. printing the image and i'd be confident that you would barely notice it at A4 or less. and that's without tweaking. dial in luminance NR and the grain can be significanlty reduced. overall, great performance from the camera.

[Ian]

Re: Check this out

Here's a 100% (1:1 or 1 image pixel to 1 screen pixel) selection:




Ian

OK if you are interested, this is ISO 3200 taken with an Olympus Pen E-P2 processed in Lightroom 3 beta 2.

Exposure was 1/100th @f/7.1.

Ian