Order out of chaos

[Stephen]

Whilst taking photos at High Force with Andrew last Thursday, I experimented and took sequences of shots of the falls at high shutter speeds. Andrew had been working with slow speeds.

I took a sequence of 10 shots all in register and with the same exposure at over 8fps.

It seemed to me that as the water fell there was little pattern and infact the water seemed to be in total chaos. Each individual exposure during the sequence is different. However, in the image below there are 10 exposures blended together by stacking them one on top of the other then altering the opacity on each layer.
The order of opacity is 100% on the bottom followed by 50,25,20,17,14,13,11,10% on the top layer. I forget the reason for the sequence but apparently its a mathematical sequence

Now when you compare this with a single shot from the sequence, you can begin to see that out of the Chaos there is some order and pattern to the water. Both shots were effectively taken at the same shutter speed 1250th sec. If you compare the first image with one that Andrew posted HERE you can see a similarity

[Autumn]

Re: Order out of chaos

Interesting result Stephen, it is something I have been wanting to try for ages. Good tonings.

[spl]

Re: Order out of chaos

That's really interesting and informative. As you say the water isn't exactly blurred although its coming close to it and this way you can get a better exposure on the rest of it as well.

[Stephen]

Re: Order out of chaos

That's really interesting and informative. As you say the water isn't exactly blurred although its coming close to it and this way you can get a better exposure on the rest of it as well.

Unfortunately the size of the image here doesn't do it justice. When you enlarge areas of the water, it adds a new dimension to it completely

[coupekid]

Re: Order out of chaos

superb Stephen, nice effect as well.
did you have a go at a long exposure and compare the results, it would be interesting to see which gave a more pleasing shot. Of course, using your method here, its an excellent way of over coming 'blown' highlights in the water.

I would love to see a close up of the top part of the waterful.

[Guest]

Re: Order out of chaos

I am sorry to say Stephen that although the pictures are very good showing detail in the rock faces I prefer the single image as the blend of all those exposures has lost all the nuances of colour and sense of action in the water particularly in the lower part of fall and where it hits the pool at the base. That as I say is only my personal preference, I feel the first is just a blur and misty spray. Sorry !!

[Jocelyn Walker]

Re: Order out of chaos

I have to agree (to a point) with what Dennis says! To me the blend of many images & subsequent blurring, causes the water to lose its vitality & force that fast flowing volumes of water have (the chaos) I do however realize that the trend these days is to freeze the motion & it can sometimes be very effective! I just prefer detail personally!

[lumix]

Re: Order out of chaos

Stephen I feel I'm just not grasping what you have tried to achieve here. Is this any different to a slow shutter shot? If so what are the differences or advantages of applying this technique? Also would this work with other moving objects?

[Pol]

Re: Order out of chaos

The order of opacity is 100% on the bottom followed by 50,25,20,17,14,13,11,10% on the top layer. I forget the reason for the sequence but apparently its a mathematical sequence

I remember the original thread when the 'mathematical' sequence
was discussed, or should I say stated, by the person concerned.

I also recall your own original stacked image .. and thinking to myself that it was at the very least *equal* to the one you re-did using the 'Mathematician's numerical sequence.

I'm in no doubt the full version of your stack looks much better than the smaller version you've posted .. but I can see why some peeps don't see the 'lively' water such a stack can usually produce.

It's good but not as good as I know it can be. The water doesn't look as good as the one you posted way back when 'he' popped his head up and promoted his mathematical sequence as being the ultimate way of doing things.



Pol

[Stephen]

Re: Order out of chaos

I remember the original thread when the 'mathematical' sequence
was discussed, or should I say stated, by the person concerned.

I also recall your own original stacked image .. and thinking to myself that it was at the very least *equal* to the one you re-did using the 'Mathematician's numerical sequence.

I'm in no doubt the full version of your stack looks much better than the smaller version you've posted .. but I can see why some peeps don't see the 'lively' water such a stack can usually produce.

It's good but not as good as I know it can be. The water doesn't look as good as the one you posted way back when 'he' popped his head up and promoted his mathematical sequence as being the ultimate way of doing things.



Pol

Ah yes. I'd agree with you about this version not being as good as the Aysgarth one, though the real effect is lost on such a small version.

This a 100% crop of the one I did 2 years ago

This is a crop of the High Force shot above

The effect of the technique, is not the same as a slow shutter speed shot, this can clearly be seen by looking at the one Andrew posted. I think in the case of High Force, the water was flowing faster and I couldn't get a fast enough shutter speed, though the single exposure shot is not too bad.

My point was though that it did show some order in the flow of the water, and if you look the water takes on a totally different appearance, almost as though it is boiling. Anyway, I really don't mind if your not keen on the effect, but I do appreciate you looking and commenting.

[lumix]

Re: Order out of chaos

Now you have shown a larger version I can see what the effect is. I believe the frame rate ie 8fps plus the shutter speed all have their part to play as to the success of this type of imaging. I'm sure my max of 5fps would not get the desired effect. Ben mentioned that you get better control of the highlights. Is this so, as each frame is a separate exposure and as such surly each is correctly exposed.
As for appreciating this effect, I reserve my judgment till I have seen a full size print, or get myself a much larger monitor.

[Stephen]

Re: Order out of chaos

Now you have shown a larger version I can see what the effect is. I believe the frame rate ie 8fps plus the shutter speed all have their part to play as to the success of this type of imaging. I'm sure my max of 5fps would not get the desired effect. Ben mentioned that you get better control of the highlights. Is this so, as each frame is a separate exposure and as such surly each is correctly exposed.
As for appreciating this effect, I reserve my judgment till I have seen a full size print, or get myself a much larger monitor.

Actually Ron, I think your camera would be just fine. On my original attempt 2 yrs ago I was using a 20D which had 5fps I think. But I also tried some where I literally counted the number of times I pressed the shutter, and that gave a good result too. I do think that a vary fast shutter speed helps though

[lumix]

Re: Order out of chaos

Actually Ron, I think your camera would be just fine. On my original attempt 2 yrs ago I was using a 20D which had 5fps I think. But I also tried some where I literally counted the number of times I pressed the shutter, and that gave a good result too. I do think that a vary fast shutter speed helps though

This is not too dissimilar to strobe flash work so there's plenty of potential in this effect.

[Pops]

Re: Order out of chaos

I must be thick because I don't appreciate the first image at all and wonder why it was done. To me the water looks very blurred and sense some detail was lost from the stonework. The 2nd shot I feel is terrific and would certainly please me if I had taken it.
Back into thick mode...I'm afraid I fail to see any resemblance between Andrew's pic and the 1st one posted here. A slow shutter speed was obviously used for the former and again is a super falling water shot.

[Stephen]

Re: Order out of chaos

I must be thick because I don't appreciate the first image at all and wonder why it was done. To me the water looks very blurred and sense some detail was lost from the stonework. The 2nd shot I feel is terrific and would certainly please me if I had taken it.
Back into thick mode...I'm afraid I fail to see any resemblance between Andrew's pic and the 1st one posted here. A slow shutter speed was obviously used for the former and again is a super falling water shot.

Haha, fair enough Pops, I ain't gonna try and persuade you