Feel sorry for all those who have bought Brawn t-shirts

[peter]

No Links as this is still up in the air but will be good to see where everyone ends up now. I do really feel sorry for all those who have spent good money on brawn gear thinking they as a team would not be just a one season wonder.

[Caz]

Re: Feel sorry for all those who have bought Brawn t-shirts

I feel sorry for them, yes, but glad that the team will continue - even if it means (as they said on local radio tonight) that the team becomes all German.

On the other hand, Jenson didn't turn up for the parade through Brackley...

[peter]

Re: Feel sorry for all those who have bought Brawn t-shirts

I feel sorry for them, yes, but glad that the team will continue - even if it means (as they said on local radio tonight) that the team becomes all German.

On the other hand, Jenson didn't turn up for the parade through Brackley...

Yes it will be a whole new team next year if the rumors are true. Does seem funny Jenson was not there I did not know that.

[Ian]

[peter]

Re: Feel sorry for all those who have bought Brawn t-shirts

I agree with what you have said Ian' I think jenson will find himself being the small fish in a big pond. Sorry to say I think jenson will find it very had next year.

[devilgas]

Re: Feel sorry for all those who have bought Brawn t-shirts

money wise, it's a good move for JB, but i think he'll get his ass handed to him by LH. the mclaren is most definitely set up for LH (kinda like the ferrari being a bitch for anyone else to drive) and his oversteer style. JB appears to prefer a much more neutral / understeering chassis, which he had at the start of last season.

my opinion is that it'll be situation normal next season with mclaren and ferrari resuming the natural order.

[Ian]

Re: Feel sorry for all those who have bought Brawn t-shirts

money wise, it's a good move for JB, but i think he'll get his ass handed to him by LH. the mclaren is most definitely set up for LH (kinda like the ferrari being a bitch for anyone else to drive) and his oversteer style. JB appears to prefer a much more neutral / understeering chassis, which he had at the start of last season.

my opinion is that it'll be situation normal next season with mclaren and ferrari resuming the natural order.

I do fear that JB will find himself in that situation - with a car that suits LH better. In some ways that's what happened in the second half of this year - the car suited RB better than it did in the first half.

But McLaren probably have the best technical resources in F1. This year's car was miles worse out of the box than the Ferrari or the Brawn and yet they turned it around and beat both on occasions.

I'd like to think that LH will motivate JB to new heights.

It certainly seems that Mercedes effectively vetoed retaining JB by imposing an unfair salary limit, and today's reports that Ross Brawn is publicly urging JB to stay says to me that Ross is desperate to keep JB. Having two new drivers (Rosberg and Heidfeld), neither of whom is a proven race winner, cannot be ideal for the new Mercedes team in Brawn's eyes, even if for Merc's PR people it's a Teutonic bonanza.

It's sad that we won't see the JB/RBrawn partnership for a second year, very sad. But I'm actually warming to a LH vs JB team battle at McLaren.

I'm not very optimistic that Ferrari will be an automatic force again. They produced, by their standards, a poor car this year. I also can't help but feel that since Ross Brawn left that the team has lost its edge. OK Raikkonen scraped a championship post-Brawn, but a lot of the Brawn era was still in place. Now much of that has gone.

I think Red Bull will be a forced to reckon with - Ross Brawn has already hinted that his 2010 car will look more like this year's Red Bull than the old Brawn design.

It will be interesting!

Ian

[devilgas]

Re: Feel sorry for all those who have bought Brawn t-shirts

now confirmed that JB will partner LH next season @ VMM.

[peter]

Re: Feel sorry for all those who have bought Brawn t-shirts

Kimi also left with no drive. http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=47432

I hate to say it and I really hope this is wrong but I do agree with Ian about Ferrari. Kimi was lucky that year and the team just not seem to gel as it once did. Not really sure what Alonso will bring to the team but I hope its good.

[JSR]

Re: Feel sorry for all those who have bought Brawn t-shirts

Just been reading it: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/8363892.stm

I can understand why Button would move - the lure of a big team, particularly if BrawnGP/MercedesGP haven't exactly been quick to keep him on. He's WDC, after all, not just some driver looking to pick up the peanuts.

That said, I can see the next three years of Button being the new Heikki. It doesn't matter who's in that second car, they will always be in the second car. Hamilton is number one in McLaren, always has been and always will be. No one in the second McLaren is ever going to be able to beat Lewis in the first McLaren. You could put Schumacher in that second McLaren and he'd still be treated as "the other driver".

Oh, well, at least Jense'll have the best chance to be runner up for the next three years and at least he has been WDC once in his career.

It's a bit of a shame in other ways, too. I was banking on seeing Kimi in the second McLaren. Although it'd still be the "second McLaren", I think Kimi is so self-absorbed that he wouldn't notice.

[Rodbender]

Re: Feel sorry for all those who have bought Brawn t-shirts

Just been reading it: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/8363892.stm

I can understand why Button would move - the lure of a big team, particularly if BrawnGP/MercedesGP haven't exactly been quick to keep him on. He's WDC, after all, not just some driver looking to pick up the peanuts.

That said, I can see the next three years of Button being the new Heikki. It doesn't matter who's in that second car, they will always be in the second car. Hamilton is number one in McLaren, always has been and always will be. No one in the second McLaren is ever going to be able to beat Lewis in the first McLaren. You could put Schumacher in that second McLaren and he'd still be treated as "the other driver".

Oh, well, at least Jense'll have the best chance to be runner up for the next three years and at least he has been WDC once in his career.

It's a bit of a shame in other ways, too. I was banking on seeing Kimi in the second McLaren. Although it'd still be the "second McLaren", I think Kimi is so self-absorbed that he wouldn't notice.

Don't under estimate JB he will give Hamilton a good run for his money. Hamilton has never driven in F1 for any other teams and lacks the experience of getting to grips with a crap car. Just look at the start of last year. He did nothing special till McLaren sorted the car. JB on the other hand has driven some "B" awful cars in his carrier and on a hole done pretty good. The second car at McLaren will never be as far behind the first car in development as some of the other teams cars have been, so with JB's experience and cool driving style, I think he could out pace LH, who still tends to get a bit hot under the collar when things are not going his way. Can't wait to see how the teams cope with full fuel and how pit stops effect the end results of the races. Bring it on JB/LH.

[JSR]

Re: Feel sorry for all those who have bought Brawn t-shirts

Don't under estimate JB he will give Hamilton a good run for his money. Hamilton has never driven in F1 for any other teams and lacks the experience of getting to grips with a crap car. Just look at the start of last year. He did nothing special till McLaren sorted the car. JB on the other hand has driven some "B" awful cars in his carrier and on a hole done pretty good. The second car at McLaren will never be as far behind the first car in development as some of the other teams cars have been, so with JB's experience and cool driving style, I think he could out pace LH, who still tends to get a bit hot under the collar when things are not going his way. Can't wait to see how the teams cope with full fuel and how pit stops effect the end results of the races. Bring it on JB/LH.

Well, I hope you're right but I can't see Button having any more chance than Heikki to challenge Lewis.

My feeling is that McLaren signed Button because they want a consistent performer in the second car, someone who knows how to look after his tyres, someone who'll bring the car home in the points, and someone to step up to the plate should Lewis falter. That way they have the maximum chance of winning both the WDC (Lewis) and the WCC (with help from Button raking in the points).

In that sense, Button is a better choice than Heikki and not so potentially dangerous to Lewis' position as Kimi.

I've supported Button for many years, through tough times as well as this year's win, but I have no hope now that he'll win a second WDC. I'm confident he'll get at 2nd place at least once, though.

I just wish we knew why Button has taken this option. Is it because he felt undervalued at Brawn/MercedesGP? He's been with that team for several years, through many trials and troubles. With the promise shown from the car this year and having the technical genius of Ross Brawn on your side, something must have gone seriously sour for Button to turn his back on all that.

[Ian]

Re: Feel sorry for all those who have bought Brawn t-shirts

Just been reading it: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/8363892.stm

I can understand why Button would move - the lure of a big team, particularly if BrawnGP/MercedesGP haven't exactly been quick to keep him on. He's WDC, after all, not just some driver looking to pick up the peanuts.

That said, I can see the next three years of Button being the new Heikki. It doesn't matter who's in that second car, they will always be in the second car. Hamilton is number one in McLaren, always has been and always will be. No one in the second McLaren is ever going to be able to beat Lewis in the first McLaren. You could put Schumacher in that second McLaren and he'd still be treated as "the other driver".

Oh, well, at least Jense'll have the best chance to be runner up for the next three years and at least he has been WDC once in his career.

It's a bit of a shame in other ways, too. I was banking on seeing Kimi in the second McLaren. Although it'd still be the "second McLaren", I think Kimi is so self-absorbed that he wouldn't notice.

I don't know - I see Jenson as being the opposite of Heikki. Jenson's qualifying was up and down this year, while Heikki was often excellent in qualifying and poor in the race, while Jenson was always a tiger in the race. Lewis has always been aggressive on his tyres and that's no good for the new no-refuelling regulations next season. I can see Lewis out-qualifying Jenson, but things being much closer in the race. There are still going to be stops for tyres, so race strategy remains important, more so than qualifying position in my book.

Ian

[JSR]

Re: Feel sorry for all those who have bought Brawn t-shirts

There's a confusing report on planet-f1 suggesting that talks broke down between Button and Brawn: http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,189...703584,00.html

[JSR]

Re: Feel sorry for all those who have bought Brawn t-shirts

I don't know - I see Jenson as being the opposite of Heikki. Jenson's qualifying was up and down this year, while Heikki was often excellent in qualifying and poor in the race, while Jenson was always a tiger in the race. Lewis has always been aggressive on his tyres and that's no good for the new no-refuelling regulations next season. I can see Lewis out-qualifying Jenson, but things being much closer in the race. There are still going to be stops for tyres, so race strategy remains important, more so than qualifying position in my book.

Ian

We all know that Button is kinder to his car and his tyres than Lewis but didn't the Bridgestone guy say that they'd have to improve the tyres anyway to handle the additional punishment of full fuel load for the entire race?

I suspect that Jenson's careful use of the tyres won't be a deciding factor here.

We also know, based on 2009, that Jenson needs the car to be tuned to his advantages in order to win. When the bulk of McLaren's technical expertise will be working on improving the car for Lewis, there won't be a lot of scope for Button's requirements.

In short, signing a three-year deal (as has been reported) was probably a good thing for Button because I doubt he'll have much chance of shining in 2010.

Still, scenes from the garage should be good. While Button's father is cheering and shouting encouragement at every minor overtaking move by Jense, Anthony Hamilton will be doing his usual "scowl at the monitor for two hours" bit. The contrast should make for some amusing commentary.