Lewis thrown out of Melbourne results

[JSR]

Re: Lewis thrown out of Melbourne results

Hamilton is now being quoted as saying that he was instructed by his team manager to 'withhold information' during the Stewards meeting. This was even after Hamilton had given a clear and truthful account of what actually happened on the track to journalists after the race and before the Stewards meeting.

In which case, certain people at McLaren want to be ashamed of themselves that the situation can occur in which their lead driver is dropped in it.

It's rather sad that we'll go away from this debacle knowing that, if someone above Lewis tells him to lie, he'll do exactly that. All the integrity money can buy.

Exactly what 'withholding information' means is the core to everything. I still maintain that if the Stewards missed the key facts and didn't ask the necessary questions, why should McLaren have spoken up? But if McLaren was asked - did you let Trulli through, or were you instructed to let Trulli through, and Hamilton and or his team manager answered 'No' - then that's clearly a lie.

According the stewards' statement, they were asked plain questions and they both denied that any such instruction was given. It was clearly a lie.

The press release (as posted earlier in this thread) clearly states-

"The Stewards and the Race Director questioned Lewis Hamilton and his Team Manager David Ryan specifically about whether there had been an instruction given to Hamilton to allow Trulli to overtake. Both the driver and the Team Manager stated that no such instruction had been given. The Race Director specifically asked Hamilton whether he had consciously allowed Trulli to overtake. Hamilton insisted that he had not done so."

It just can't be any clearer than that. Unless you're suggesting that the stewards are lying?

And I still feel the Stewards have to hold their hand up as they should have established beyond all doubt what had happened during the first meeting, regardless of whether McLaren was 'withholding information' or not.

So you mean that anyone asking questions of Lewis and McLaren should automatically assume that they're lying and insist on proof? It's a sad day for the sport if we're to believe that everyone involved always lies.

Can you imagine the uproar if the stewards had said "we've interviewed Lewis, but we don't believe him because he's probably lying and we need more evidence"..? They'd be lynched! I see no reason why they shouldn't have believed him in that first investigation. I would have believed him. I'll know better in the future.

Why do you think they should have assumed he was lying through his teeth?

[JSR]

Re: Lewis thrown out of Melbourne results

So on to the good news from today Ferrari back on top . Ok so it may not last but I can but hope

Naah, get thee behind thy Brawn GPs - where you belong!

[Ian]

Re: Lewis thrown out of Melbourne results

I think that the stewards' statement and the McLaren explanation are still open to interpretation. McLaren, under intense pressure, are still saying that they didn't lie.

It's clear that the McLaren pit team initially instructed Hamilton to let Trulli past, but Hamilton quite rightly objected. Eventually, the pit came round to Hamilton's point of view. I think McLaren argue that technically there was a muddle but the end decision was to not let Trulli through, but he went through anyway. There was certainly confusion and I feel McLaren went in to the meeting feeling they were right.

I would like to see a transcript of the stewards' meeting; that will settle the Hamilton aspect once and for all.

Whatever, I still think Trulli was in the wrong and could and should have sorted it out on the track.

And, again, I still feel strongly that the stewards did not do their job properly. They should have had many more available independent facts before them (video footage, radio transcripts, etc.), which they plainly did not.

The fact is that McLaren went into that meeting on the moral high ground, so how it turned out in the end and over a period of several days, is just bizarre.

Ian

[JSR]

Re: Lewis thrown out of Melbourne results

I think that the stewards' statement and the McLaren explanation are still open to interpretation. McLaren, under intense pressure, are still saying that they didn't lie.

McLaren should appeal.

Whether you think the press release is open to interpretation or not, it clearly says to me that the stewards are saying that both Lewis Hamilton and his team manager lied in that first meeting. It's blatant.

If it's not true, McLaren need to make it clear that it's not true. And, if it's not true and they didn't lie - then why have they suspended one of the men accused of lying?

The fact is that McLaren went into that meeting on the moral high ground, so how it turned out in the end and over a period of several days, is just bizarre.

That's certainly one interpretation. My interpretation is that someone in McLaren (probably the aforementioned suspended race manager) instructed Lewis to lie. Both Lewis and Dave Ryan lied with the intent to mislead the stewards - they lied to cheat the race results. Lying and cheating is not something the sport should condone.

I don't know about anyone else, but the one thing that makes this worse is that I feel like we've been betrayed by McLaren and Lewis - a British team and a British driver. The rest is just details.

I think I've said enough on the subject. I'm looking ahead to the next race now - but I don't think I'll ever look at that McLaren car in the same way again.

[devilgas]

Re: Lewis thrown out of Melbourne results

Naah, get thee behind thy Brawn GPs - where you belong!

amen to that


the whole VMM / LH / JT thing is difficult to get right for those on the outside without a transcript of the stewards hearing being available. we've had the radio traffic, but very little else.
however it's pretty obvious that VMM have f'd up big time. at least LH did the right thing in apologising. copy book still blotted but not quite as badly as if he hadn't done the "me bad" thing. question now is, how much will LH listen to the team in future / question their instructions? if he'd ignored them this time, then we wouldn't even be having this discussion.....
oh, the power of hindsight.

[JSR]

Re: Lewis thrown out of Melbourne results

amen to that

Apparently Barrichello will take a 5-place grid penalty for changing his gearbox between races. I hope that doesn't mean there's going to be a reliability issue with Button's gearbox during the weekend, too. These are supposed to last four races - not just one!

And, unrelated to Brawn, Alonso's taking it easy due to an ear infection.

Is anything ever going to happen "on the track"..?

the whole VMM / LH / JT thing is difficult to get right for those on the outside without a transcript of the stewards hearing being available. we've had the radio traffic, but very little else.
however it's pretty obvious that VMM have f'd up big time. at least LH did the right thing in apologising. copy book still blotted but not quite as badly as if he hadn't done the "me bad" thing. question now is, how much will LH listen to the team in future / question their instructions? if he'd ignored them this time, then we wouldn't even be having this discussion.....
oh, the power of hindsight.

I've just been watching Lewis' press conference in which he apologised. It does seem that he's trying desperately to *not* say "I lied, it was wrong, I apologise, I don't intend to do it again". But he does apologise for being misled by Dave Ryan, and he apologises to his team, family, and fans for the embarrassment.

From Hamilton's own words it would appear that it all stems from Ryan and Hamilton waiting outside the stewards room for Trulli to finish and, in that brief moment, Ryan tipped Hamilton the wink saying something like "tell them Trulli overtook you, but don't tell them you let him". For that brief moment, Lewis apparently took leave of his senses and agreed to lie on behalf of Ryan. That would seem to be his mistake. An error of judgement leading to the even worse mistake of lying to the stewards.

With good fortunate, he won't let that mistake happen again.


On the subject of controversy surrounding Lewis Hamilton, did you know he was fined today for speeding in the pit-lane? http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/more-s...5875-21250211/

Was he "misled" by the speedo?

[JSR]

Re: Lewis thrown out of Melbourne results

I've just been reading a Q&A with Jarno Trulli, at http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74148.

There's a piece of information there that should answer the question of whether Trulli should have stayed behind Hamilton when Lewis slowed right down.

"the rules say that if the car in front of you cannot keep a certain speed to follow the safety car or is in trouble, you can overtake that car.

I didn't know what was his problem. If he wanted he could have overtaken me. I let him by. When I overtook him I moved to the left side and he didn't overtake me."

According to http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/ru.../8687/fia.html, re:

40.5 From this time, any car being driven unnecessarily slowly, erratically or which is deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers at any time whilst the safety car is deployed will be reported to the stewards. This will apply whether any such car is being driven on the track, the pit entry or the pit lane.

40.7 All competing cars must then reduce speed and form up in line behind the safety car no more than ten car lengths apart and overtaking, with the following exceptions, is forbidden until the cars reach the Line after the safety car has returned to the pits. Overtaking will be permitted under the following circumstances :
- if a car is signalled to do so from the safety car ;
- under 40.15 below ;
- any car entering the pits may pass another car or the safety car remaining on the track after it has crossed the first safety car line ;
- any car leaving the pits may be overtaken by another car on the track before it crosses the second safety car line ;
- when the safety car is returning to the pits it may be overtaken by cars on the track once it has crossed the first safety car line ;
- any car stopping in its designated garage area whilst the safety car is using the pit lane (see 40.10 below) may be overtaken ;
- if any car slows with an obvious problem.

40.5 would explain why the stewards investigated the incident (Hamilton driving "unnecessarily slowly"). And 40.7 would be Trulli's defence.

Seems to me that Trulli isn't the bad-guy here.

[devilgas]

Re: Lewis thrown out of Melbourne results

personally i think VMM are going ahead with this suspension as a "we're doing something about it", which they need to be seen to do, but is probably a lot more transparent than it appears.

i stand corrected. dave ryan was sacked by VMM on 7th april. track day and easter kinda got in the way of me seeing that one.

[JSR]

Re: Lewis thrown out of Melbourne results

Finally, it's over!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8024661.stm

Personally, I think that was the lightest possible penalty they could get.

I'm not too sure that it sends out the right message to the other teams. It kind of says "lie to the stewards as many times as you like, but you'll only be penalised if you get caught twice". I think they should have a "zero tolerance" policy for lying to the stewards, but that's just me.

I'm glad it's all over. Hopefully they can just get on and race now.