Japan quake disaster

[Pol]

Re: Japan quake disaster

Yeah, I have to think once more what I'm going to do.

yoshi

Dearest Yoshi

You're so precious and I'm so very concerned for you. I'm constantly scanning various news feeds, including Kyodo, and I really can't see how you can stay safely where you are as you have no way of replenishing food supplies - and safe drinking water.

I'm in no doubt some people may be suffereing from 'mental problems' at the moment as people are feeling shocked and traumatised, suffering from stresses and fears - but those feeling are usually transient. Those fears and stresss are natural in the current circumstances. They can recover with help and support.

The thing is you're NOT in Myagi - and a small amount of food is better than none at all, which is how it could become for you if you stay isolated and alone.

Maybe supplies are better in your local evacuation centre. That gymnasium was at least spacious, high ceiling and looking quite well organised for peopleon the floor. You also mention seeing a helicopter yesterday, or was it the day before? Helicopters can drop food packages and supplies and they'll aim for the known evacuation centres.

I've just found THIS LINK Haven't had time to go through it yet but perhaps there's something helpful for you in there (Japanese text as well as English.

Take care. Do what you feel you have to do to SURVIVE.

With my love

Polly
xx

[yoshi]

Re: Japan quake disaster

Yoshi

I agree with Pol - whilst it has been fascinating to read of your experiences, and wonderful to hear from you that you are well and safe it may well now be time to consider your own health and safety and prepare to evacuate, particularly in the light of the link that Pol has just posted about the risk of further dangers.

Whatever you decide to do, our thoughts will be with you.

Stay safe and well

Carol

Many thanks Carol, I appreciate it.
Thanks to God, I just happened to be here on the day when the huge quake and the tsunami hit Japan. As this is a mountainous land, no fear at all as far as tsunami is concerned. It is however quite probable that I happened to be at one of the coastal areas, since it is only 30km away. Actually I occasionally visited those places and I know well where the nuke plant number one is.

As the God allowed me some more time to live, I do not want to waste it just by ignoring the threats of the nuke problems, which are not a natural disaster but man-made calamities.
It is simply humiliating. I can easily guess that people in other countries are worried about the poor management by those people here. The quake itself is always one of our things that is "within the scope of expectations" and cosequently the damages and possible counter-measures should also be well contemplated beforehand.

They just say the diesel power generators to be used for pumping coolant water were damaged by the same tsunami, although the reactors themselves were ok and not damaged by the quake and tsunami.
Then they should have prepared simply a spare to be kept at a safer place not on the same site.
(the second counter measure line existed but did not work properly again due to tsunami, they say, but no meaning for me,if it did not work properly)

Oh, sorry , that's not the point. I sent e-mails to some of my frineds here who understand English, with the link to this thread, and seeked for their opinions.
I asked them simply "am I a fool/idiot?"

yoshi


yoshi

[Brian Jackson]

Re: Japan quake disaster

I can only state what I would do. My photographer side would want to stay and see it all, photograph it all. My other side would say get out of the way to snap pics another day.

I have worked in rescue before. If you evacuate, you make it easier for the rescue workers to do their job. One less person to have to haul out if things deteriorate. If you can move and don't, they may need to rescue you. If you 'self rescue', they can save another person who couldn't get out on their own. You will have saved two lives if you leave. Rescue personnel can only do so much, there are only so many hours in the day. Time will run out for someone else if you need to be rescued. Or, worse yet, they will be rescued as time runs out for you.

Get out any way you can, at least to an established shelter. Give rescuers one less thing to worry about.

[Pol]

Re: Japan quake disaster

It is simply humiliating. I can easily guess that people in other countries are worried about the poor management by those people here. The quake itself is always one of our things that is "within the scope of expectations" and cosequently the damages and possible counter-measures should also be well contemplated beforehand.

yoshi

You are so wrong to feel humiliated! People in other countries are actually reviewing their OWN Nuclear power plants with great concern.

Other countries have the utmost respect and regard for the Japanese people and their skills, technologies and management and the feeling is that if it can go wrong in Japan then it can go wrong so much more easily in their own country!

JAPAN IS HIGHLY RESPECTED WORLDWIDE!!

As a matter of fact our own home is about 30-40 miles north of the Nuclear power plant at Dungeness. The local residents are supplied with Iodine tablets to keep at home at all times. The land is very flat, slightly below sea level actually, on the English Channel coast.

The world is feeling and sharing your fears, willing you all to survive and recover from this tragedy. Looking to Japan for GUIDANCE rather than thinking they've done anything wrong.

You're being stubborn and merely suffering from that reknowned glitch in the Japanese mentality - ie Honour. You should be PROUD of the heroic and intelligent attempts they're making to bring the power plant back under control.

Pol

[Pol]

Re: Japan quake disaster

I can only state what I would do. My photographer side would want to stay and see it all, photograph it all. My other side would say get out of the way to snap pics another day.

I have worked in rescue before. If you evacuate, you make it easier for the rescue workers to do their job. One less person to have to haul out if things deteriorate. If you can move and don't, they may need to rescue you. If you 'self rescue', they can save another person who couldn't get out on their own. You will have saved two lives if you leave. Rescue personnel can only do so much, there are only so many hours in the day. Time will run out for someone else if you need to be rescued. Or, worse yet, they will be rescued as time runs out for you.

Get out any way you can, at least to an established shelter. Give rescuers one less thing to worry about.

You've summed it up very well there, Brian!

Yoshi, and anyone else with reason to be concerned about friends or relatives in Fukushima Prefecture - the link below has the information you need for evacuation centres, the location, capacity and people in the cenre so far. Also details of screening centres and other important information.

http://www.worldvillage.org/fia/kinkyu_english.php

Last but not least - I just read that one commentator has said reducing food rations enables longer survival ... and I agree with that!

Remember the Leningrad blockade - how people survived on crumbs, made soup by boiling leather. Survival is paramount and you only need enough food and water to SURVIVE.

Other countries are trying to send help as soon as it's safe to do so. Food supplies and other assistance will be going to Japan from all over the world.

Here's that vital link again

http://www.worldvillage.org/fia/kinkyu_english.php

Pol

[Ian]

Re: Japan quake disaster

Naturally, the sensible thing is to retreat from a potential threat.

But I have to say that as far as I can see it is still just that, a potential threat. The BBC news at lunch time echoes what I have gleaned from various sources that the damaged reactors have released small (in terms of the area of the region) amounts of radioactive gas that quickly disperses.

If we believe what we are being told by the Japanese power people, the reactors have all been shut down, so there is no fission or chain reaction activity. But residual heat super-heated the coolant water, the resulting steam was vented but some of it had split into hydrogen and oxgen, which is a very explosive mix. So the explosions happened outside the reactor vessels and there is no evidence that the vessels or the fuel has been damaged.

In Chernobyl the reactor vessel was damaged and fuel melted and vapourised highly radioactive materials were released in large quantities for almost two weeks.

The potential danger in Fukushima, as I see it, is if one of the reactor vessels is actually damaged, resulting in leakage of nuclear materials after a melt down. So far only some gases and maybe water vapour that has been made radioactive through contact with the fuel has been released and this quickly dissipates.

So my personal feeling is that Yoshi is safe, but there is no harm in trying to distance one's self from the plant if he can.

Ian

[yoshi]

Re: Japan quake disaster

I can only state what I would do. My photographer side would want to stay and see it all, photograph it all. My other side would say get out of the way to snap pics another day.

I have worked in rescue before. If you evacuate, you make it easier for the rescue workers to do their job. One less person to have to haul out if things deteriorate. If you can move and don't, they may need to rescue you. If you 'self rescue', they can save another person who couldn't get out on their own. You will have saved two lives if you leave. Rescue personnel can only do so much, there are only so many hours in the day. Time will run out for someone else if you need to be rescued. Or, worse yet, they will be rescued as time runs out for you.

Get out any way you can, at least to an established shelter. Give rescuers one less thing to worry about.

Hi Brian, nice to see you here again.
Being a landscaper, I have never imagined to take pictures of the devastated area like a photo jurnalist but it's not a bad idea. It surely broadens my photo experiences. The problem (?) is that this area where I am is not damaged by the quake or by the tsunami. The problem I have here is simply threats of leakeage of radioactivity. And the biggest problem I have is that I have no idea at all how to take pictures of the radioacitivity.
--- well, just joking. I do understand that you recommend me to evacuate and thanks for your kind words, Brian.

Maybe someday you can talk to us some of your experiences of the rescuer. I learned from this post the viewpoint of the rescuers. I have never thought about it. --- I do not think I would seek for a rescue, though, whichever decision I make.

I learned from one of the links Pol gave me that the central police department reported that "mission completed"- all the remaining 96 persons within the 20km region were rescued and evacuated to other areas. So the "mission impossible" for them was to find ...

yoshi

[yoshi]

Re: Japan quake disaster

thanks again, Pol, for those informative links.
One of them lead me to the prefecutural office which shows the level of radioactivity measured at various places of Fukushima pref. almost every hour.

It shows the level went up on the 15th since the explosion & fire of the #4 reactor. Both at Koriyama, 50km westward from my place, and Iwaki, maybe 10-15km southward from the Number 2 plant.
They kept the fuel rods already consumed between the damaged concrete shelter/building and the steel shelter of the reactor. The concrete shelter got a huge hole and inevitably leakage from the fuel rods, even though they were already used.

I know you are right and rational in every aspect in this regard, Pol.

yoshi

[yoshi]

Re: Japan quake disaster

Naturally, the sensible thing is to retreat from a potential threat.

But I have to say that as far as I can see it is still just that, a potential threat. The BBC news at lunch time echoes what I have gleaned from various sources that the damaged reactors have released small (in terms of the area of the region) amounts of radioactive gas that quickly disperses.

If we believe what we are being told by the Japanese power people, the reactors have all been shut down, so there is no fission or chain reaction activity. But residual heat super-heated the coolant water, the resulting steam was vented but some of it had split into hydrogen and oxgen, which is a very explosive mix. So the explosions happened outside the reactor vessels and there is no evidence that the vessels or the fuel has been damaged.

In Chernobyl the reactor vessel was damaged and fuel melted and vapourised highly radioactive materials were released in large quantities for almost two weeks.

The potential danger in Fukushima, as I see it, is if one of the reactor vessels is actually damaged, resulting in leakage of nuclear materials after a melt down. So far only some gases and maybe water vapour that has been made radioactive through contact with the fuel has been released and this quickly dissipates.

So my personal feeling is that Yoshi is safe, but there is no harm in trying to distance one's self from the plant if he can.

Ian

I appreciate this information, Ian. That's what I wanted to hear. You know me very well. BBC is nicer than ours.


yoshi

[yoshi]

Re: Japan quake disaster

You're being stubborn and merely suffering from that reknowned glitch in the Japanese mentality - ie Honour. You should be PROUD of the heroic and intelligent attempts they're making to bring the power plant back under control.

Pol

Thanks for your kind words, Pol.
They must be so glad to hear that. Some of them are tackling with the emergency assignments even though they know that the exposion is possible. I would not blame them. I just feel thanks to them.

I just want to accuse the management who should be and are supposed to be well prepared to the secondary disaster caused to the nuke plants.
yoshi

[Pol]

Re: Japan quake disaster

..... the central police department reported that "mission completed"- all the remaining 96 persons within the 20km region were rescued and evacuated to other areas. So the "mission impossible" for them was to find ...

yoshi

You're very naughty - but that's what why I love you.

Take care at all times. You know all the necessary precautions so be ever mindful.

I think I may have located your village but I won't say the name, though I've bookmarked the location so I can keep watching in case any specific information comes through. I can't read Japanese characters so it would need to be in English.

I'll send you a private message so you can see where I'm looking and watching.

Pol

[Ian]

Re: Japan quake disaster

I have been doing some more research. It appears that small quantities if radioactive Caesium and Iodine may have been released from a spent fuel containment pond that was damaged by fire. This is much more serious than radioactivity in vented steam from the actual reactors. But the fire was extinguished and with that the release of contaminants. It's likely that all those who will be contaminated, already have been. However, there is now growing concern that damage to the spent fuel containers may be causing the water in the pond to boil and this could release more radiaoctive material.

Apparently the Chernobyl reactor, which was an older and, even then, bad design, did not have a containment structure for the reactor (d'uh!).

The Fukushima plant (Daichi - there are two nuclear plants in Fukushima and the Daini plant shut down successfully, overcoming some problems, after the quake) is an old design too, but much safer than the Chernobyl one, and is better protected if the fuel should melt.

Ian

[yoshi]

Re: Japan quake disaster

It appears that small quantities if radioactive Caesium and Iodine may have been released from a spent fuel containment pond that was damaged by fire. This is much more serious than radioactivity in vented steam from the actual reactors.　

much more serious omg!

But the fire was extinguished and with that the release of contaminants. It's likely that all those who will be contaminated, already have been. However, there is now growing concern that damage to the spent fuel containers may be causing the water in the pond to boil and this could release more radiaoctive material.　

The news I heard some minutes ago, although I did not listend to it very carefully, all the reactors #1 to #3 are now under 100 degrees celcius and that was confirmed. They finally changed the motors of the malfunctioning diesel power generators and now they can pump water as much as they want at time they want.

As for #4 reactor, of which outside concrete shelter has now two huge holes made by the explosion, they are planning to drop hundreds of gallons of water from a helicopter in order to cool down the spent fuel rod. The temperature of the pool of the fuel rod went up on the 14th from 40 degrees to 84 degrees and exploded and got a fire on the 15th morning, they say, iirc.

The Fukushima plant (Daichi - there are two nuclear plants in Fukushima and the Daini plant shut down successfully, overcoming some problems, after the quake) is an old design too, but much safer than the Chernobyl one, and is better protected if the fuel should melt.

Ian

Daiichi means the first, and Daini, the second. So the older first plant has all the problems.
The #1 reactor of the first plant was in operation for 40 years and just a few months ago, after refurbishiment, they just started to operate again for another 10 years or so. Until the law was changed a few years ago, the maximum life allowed for reactors were 40 years. The #1 reactor was the 3rd oldest in Japan.

That might be subject to hot discussions after the problems for the time being are settled.

yoshi

[devilgas]

Re: Japan quake disaster

yoshi, from my view, the guys with you are doing a brilliant job. i can't imagine many other countries that could provide such a response.

as far as the reactors goes, wiki has a good explanation of how they work and why a remote standby water pump system isn't an option - [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_water_reactor[/ame]

keep safe dude.

[ekkl]

Re: Japan quake disaster

Just heard there has been another one at 6 on the scale. Good to see you ok Yoshi, thoughts are out there for you and your family and others affected by this terrible event.
Paul.