Micro 4/3rds strikes a blow at Big 2!

[yoshi]

Micro Four-Thirds (mFT) strikes a blow at the Big 2!

I read an interesitng brief reference to the above in a recent BCN article issued on Nov.11.

The chart below shows the market share trend of mFT since October last year until October this year.
The combined market share of micro 4/3rds (Panny and Oly) is shown among the Japanese dSLR market (not compact digi_cam market).

The mFT group is keeping the upward trend for significantly long period (well, 13 months --- not long enough)

The blue line = % in sales units
the purple line = % in monetary value

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In the last month, top 3 dSLR brands were;

Canon 42.9%
Nikon 24.6%
Panny 14.7%

So the combined market share of the Big 2 is now less than 70%, which was unimaginable a few years ago.
Is this a paradigma shift or just a fad?

*******
The article does not mention this but I would add that Nikon clearly mentioned early this year that they would not seek for No.1 market share,
wile Canon, iirc, delivered a more enthusiastic comment for being the market leader.

*********
Incidentally, in the compact digicam market this year(also in Japan), Casio is the market leader these days, followed by Canon and Panasonic.
Hi speed cameras seem to have contributed their growth.

*********

well, the Oly's new EP-2 was just announced today in Japan. I thought they would not launch it in Japan.
I wonder why today - a week later than elsewhere.

yoshi - a Caon user who is currently interested in G11 and 7D

[Ian]

Re: Micro 4/3rds strikes a blow at Big 2!

Hi Yoshi - nice to hear from you as always!

Is the Panasonic figure only for their models or does it include Micro Four Thirds in total (including the Olympus E-P1)?

I had also heard a figure that Micro Four Thirds and Four Thirds sales in total (both Olympus and Panasonic and both versions of Four Thirds) had reached 20% of the Japanese market at one point.

I'd also be interested to know what you think of the Ricoh GXR? Ricoh tell us here in the UK that they are a popular niche player in Japan.

We know that Samsung is going to launch its NX mirrorless interchangeable lens system camera soon, Sony has made noises that it wants to do something like this too, and we've seen a patent lodged by Nikon for a similar kind of camera with a smaller sensor than Four Thirds. Has there been any comment in Japan on any of the above?

Ian

[Bob Ross]

Re: Micro 4/3rds strikes a blow at Big 2!

Hi Ian,
There was an interesting slip by a reviewer that is big with Canon, that they would add something. I don't know if it was a typo, a diliberate hint or he was just being naughty. Look for it at MR at LL on X1
Bob

[Stephen]

Re: Micro 4/3rds strikes a blow at Big 2!

Hi Ian,
There was an interesting slip by a reviewer that is big with Canon, that they would add something. I don't know if it was a typo, a diliberate hint or he was just being naughty. Look for it at MR at LL on X1
Bob

Well I finally worked that one out Bob though I'm struggling so see the hint

[Bob Ross]

Re: Micro 4/3rds strikes a blow at Big 2!

Well I finally worked that one out Bob though I'm struggling so see the hint

It is well hiden in the "Compared to the Panasonic GF1" subsubject, third paragraph under the table......'Are there other contenders...Ricoh.....Canon.....Samsung..."
He forgot to mention Fuji's mFT entry, which is supposedly confirmed from inside sources to exist.
This could be nothing, but Yoshi's spotlight on the sales trends in Japan must also be known to a wide variety of marketing types in the industry, so it make sense.
I am fairly certain we'll see something from all the players eventually. Canon isn't going to PMA, but will do CES. The question is who can have them on the shelves before Christmas.....
Bob

[yoshi]

Re: Micro 4/3rds strikes a blow at Big 2!

I, too, struggled to decode Bob's cipher.

What I could understand was only X1. Both MR and LL meant nothing to me and I first thought more new models were coming

well, I found the link here. MR=Michael Reichmann and LL=luminous landscape

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/x1-field.shtml

(sorry I'm not a lurker of this site so really spent a lot of time until I found first hint.)

The excerpts you referred to must be this one.

"Are there other contenders? The Olympus E-P1 just didn't impress me, though it's similar in concept to the GF1. Maybe the upcoming E-P2
will play a stronger hand. The fascinating new Ricoh GXR along with Canon and Samsung's large sensor pocket cameras are still largely unknowns. "


Hmm, a mirrorless interchangeable system from Canon? will it have an integrated view finder?.
Even though a tiny one like G11, I would appreciate it.
yoshi

[yoshi]

Re: Micro 4/3rds strikes a blow at Big 2!

Hi Ian,
after another long absence, I came back home a few days ago and am trying again to catch up.

I'm a bit surprised to read about Richo's GXR. I like the idea which reminds me, on the other hand, of the late Oly's Maitani's interview that I read in the 90's.
Richo is surely a good and relatively strong niche player in compact digicams, not for mass markets but for high end amateurs/pros. They once manufactured film SLR's with K mount (that is, Pentax's mount standard) as you know. Since they withdrew from SLR market, they mostly focus on the high-end compact digicams with (usually) a fixed focal length lens.

About your queries, I will try to get more info - atm I do not think I'm up to date.
yoshi

[Bob Ross]

Re: Micro 4/3rds strikes a blow at Big 2!

I, too, struggled to decode Bob's cipher.

What I could understand was only X1. Both MR and LL meant nothing to me and I first thought more new models were coming

well, I found the link here. MR=Michael Reichmann and LL=luminous landscape

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/x1-field.shtml

(sorry I'm not a lurker of this site so really spent a lot of time until I found first hint.)

The excerpts you referred to must be this one.

"Are there other contenders? The Olympus E-P1 just didn't impress me, though it's similar in concept to the GF1. Maybe the upcoming E-P2
will play a stronger hand. The fascinating new Ricoh GXR along with Canon and Samsung's large sensor pocket cameras are still largely unknowns. "


Hmm, a mirrorless interchangeable system from Canon? will it have an integrated view finder?.
Even though a tiny one like G11, I would appreciate it.
yoshi

Sorry Yoshi, I didn't mean to make it a treasure hunt...
I saw a post with what might be third or fourth hand info that said that a Canon mirrless/large sensor camera was spotted. It resembled one of Canon's super-zooms and had a sensor smaller than 4/3rds (2.5X crop). That last part was interesting, because Nikon filed patents for lenses for a 2.5X crop.
I am wondering if the 4/3rds and a bit smaller sensors are a symptom of the video side. I once read that due to sensor wipe speed & processing, that the 4/3rds sensor was the largest that could be used for quality video. This was from a commercial video person. The 2.5X crop would be the size of the 1" vidicon tube cameras. maybe the smaller sensors are from the professional video cameras, which would have a library of lens designs available.
Bob

[Ian]

Re: Micro 4/3rds strikes a blow at Big 2!

Sorry Yoshi, I didn't mean to make it a treasure hunt...
I saw a post with what might be third or fourth hand info that said that a Canon mirrless/large sensor camera was spotted. It resembled one of Canon's super-zooms and had a sensor smaller than 4/3rds (2.5X crop). That last part was interesting, because Nikon filed patents for lenses for a 2.5X crop.
I am wondering if the 4/3rds and a bit smaller sensors are a symptom of the video side. I once read that due to sensor wipe speed & processing, that the 4/3rds sensor was the largest that could be used for quality video. This was from a commercial video person. The 2.5X crop would be the size of the 1" vidicon tube cameras. maybe the smaller sensors are from the professional video cameras, which would have a library of lens designs available.
Bob

Hi Bob, surely the EOS 5D Mark II shows that a 24x36 sensor can do very high quality video?

Ian

[yoshi]

Re: Micro 4/3rds strikes a blow at Big 2!

Is the Panasonic figure only for their models or does it include Micro Four Thirds in total (including the Olympus E-P1)?　

Yes, the Panasonic figure includes only Panny models, both original FT and mFT. The sales of Panny's original FT models are, I guess, vertually nil
so the Panny figures must be achieved mostly by mFT models. All of the three models are apparently successful, G1, GH1 and GF1.
We can find demo units even at a smaller shop where formerly no such demo units were available.

To me, I just have to think " where have all the Sony's gone? Long time passing ... (I forgot the phrase ...I mean the PP&M song)".
Sony once established the position as the secure No.3 in this market but now ... "Time's changing ... (Bob Dylan) "
or am I too old to learn a new song, I wonder.

I had also heard a figure that Micro Four Thirds and Four Thirds sales in total (both Olympus and Panasonic and both versions of Four Thirds) had reached 20% of the Japanese market at one point.

I could not find an article directly related to the content but it must be in July, as the chart shows the mFT attained 19.6% in monetary value.
The E-P1 and GF1 are both in short supply, espcially the latter these days. OTH the annoucement of E-P2 is going to make the E-P1 price lower and conseqently more sales

The upward trend of mFT will in that sence continue for a while.
Both Oly and Panny are said to be successful in acquiring new dSLR users.

We know that Samsung is going to launch its NX mirrorless interchangeable lens system camera soon, Sony has made noises that it wants to do something like this too, and we've seen a patent lodged by Nikon for a similar kind of camera with a smaller sensor than Four Thirds. Has there been any comment in Japan on any of the above?

I read some rumours but not sure about their reliability. Sony's rumour says they will announce a new system (?) on Nov.18, as you surely know it.
More people are skeptical about it but anyway rumours are rumours. Or have you already written a preview of the upcoming one?
Rumors are now global and mutually dependent. So a similar rumour from Japan or wherever does not mean that rumour is credible, imho.
Well, it is true that Sony has shown strong interests in having mirrorless interchangeable lens system, I should add. But this is not news, I wonder?

It is also true that Nikon got the patent #２００８－１１８１９９ in May last year. - shortly before Panny makes the announcement of mFT.
According to the interview with Nikon's Mr. Goto in July this year, he does not deny the possibility of introducing a new mount system but wants to make it diiferent from mFT style.

yoshi

P.S. I enjoyed lurking the Richo's official site. Some sample images are also nice for viewing per se. I could not find a mFT module at the officila site though. Is it coming soon?

[yoshi]

Re: Micro 4/3rds strikes a blow at Big 2!

and here
Minolta version in 1996 (pic #1 & #2)


Sharp version in 2002 (pic #3)

-from the left to the right, tuner unit (for TV), still camera unit and movie camera unit installed on the body
-4 Mp

Richo might have a cell phone module as well? or one-segment TV module?

yoshi

p.s. I wanted to post this as a response to Patrick's comments on Richo GXR on another forum (headline news) but somehow I could not figure out how to attach files there. He referred to Canon's case there.

[Bob Ross]

Re: Micro 4/3rds strikes a blow at Big 2!

Hi Bob, surely the EOS 5D Mark II shows that a 24x36 sensor can do very high quality video?

Ian

Hi Ian,
Yes, the bigger sensors can do video, but I would like an experienced professional video to give a critique on the "quality" and if any of the shortcomings are due to sensor size. Comments like the ones made by Micheal Reichmann about the "jello" effect are still from a man who knows stills better than video.
It, of course, can be done as the Red-Scarlet shows, but that doesn't fit in the average camera bag or many pocket books.
Bob

[Bob Ross]

Re: Micro 4/3rds strikes a blow at Big 2!

To me, I just have to think " where have all the Sony's gone? Long time passing ... (I forgot the phrase ...I mean the PP&M song)".





yoshi

......Gone to landfills everyone....Oh, when will we ever learn....when will we evvvvvver ..... learn
Bob

[Bob Ross]

Re: Micro 4/3rds strikes a blow at Big 2!

Hi Yoshi,
Ricoh could make a remote cable like we have for flash units, that could make all lens modules worl like the Minolta. Then there could be wireless versions, too.
Bob

[yoshi]

Re: Micro 4/3rds strikes a blow at Big 2!

......Gone to landfills everyone....Oh, when will we ever learn....when will we evvvvvver ..... learn
Bob

yes, yes, that's it. Thanks, Bob.
yoshi